Hydrogen fuel cells...

[HyperNut]

In short, the seemingly unquestioned goodness of hydrogen fuel cells is bothering me. One question keeps running through my head, why is our government, and many people, pursuing this technology that is years away and will very likely be as expensive as gasoline powered engines to operate, especially when biomass technology already exists, and is being used? Although I have not found any evidence to answer this question, I have found information on the possible environmental damage due to hydrogen fuel cells; they are not pollutant free as we are lead to believe.
According to the science news article, “Not so green? Using hydrogen as fuel may hurt environment.” Published the week of June 14, 2003, volume 163 NO. 24.
Hydrogen fuel cells may just cause different environmental problems then fossil fuels. Leaks of hydrogen gas and emissions from fuel cells may cause problems in the upper atmosphere, such as creating more moisture and colder temperature in the upper atmosphere. I know what your thinking, water, so what? Well reactions that destroy ozone take place on ice crystals.” So added moisture is bad.
To finish this off I am going to say this. The UN has this to say about biomass fuel. “Energy is a perquisite for sustainable development and for fighting poverty.” They go on to say that available, affordable, and sustainable energy is “critical to the achievement of the millennium development goals.” Thy go on to say that biomass energy can contribute to humanitarian goals by; halving extreme poverty, halving the number of people who suffer from hunger, achieve universal primary education, promote gender equality and empower women, also in primary and secondary education, reduce child mortality, and ensuring environmental sustainability. So keep this in mind when you hear stuff about both the fuels, and if you are wondering how this has to do with this site just think of what TDI stands for…

[HyperNut]

I was actually hoping people would reply to this, i find this topic to be very interesting and important. I wrote this because it seems to me that people are not looking at any facts when they make up their minds that hydrogen fuel cells are better then biomass fuel. Biomass fuel is growing diesel btw.

[burn_your_money]

I'll reply... this is the first time I've seen this thread. I don't know much about either energy source, however I agree that most people are led to beleive that hydrogen is a clean energy source.
Personally I am interested in green energy: wind, water and sun. The bad news for me is that my provincial government is considering putting in some 7 or 8 power generators that are powered by some coal hybrid. I forget axactly what it is but it defintly isn't clean. I just think it is rediculous that we don't use more water eneregy since Ontario is full of rivers that could easily by turned into hydro electricity.

[jettadude]

well, with the whole alternative fuels, we have soo many flamable liquids, why not try alcohol? it is not hard to produce, and there are allready cars running on it. but if someone would try to perfect the system it would work nicely

[jettadude]

check this out, http://terrasol.home.igc.org/alky/alky.htm info on converting your car.

[Mr_Diesel]

Personally I think diesel engines are the future surival plan of this plannet. Soybeans can be grown pretty much on every continent. Soybeans make vegetable oil, and vegetable oil can be burned in a diesel engine. (IE: RENEWABLE FUELS) diesel engines have already shown how usefull they can be (over the past century), and with the modern TDI, they have shown that in fact, YES, a turbocharged diesel engine can make 200lb ft and still get 45mpg... What does this show for the future? We grow our own fuel, and burn it in our 3 cylinder turbo diesel cars and get 90-100mpg... of course, a gallon of vegetable oil will cost 3-4 dollars per gallon, but the fact that we are getting 3-4 times the mileage out every gallon of "fuel" will outweigh the extra cost for fuels. Another thing, with fuel cells, HYDROGEN filling stations have to be implemented in the place of pretty much every gas station... I dunno about you but I can think of atleast a couple thousand gas stations in just my area alone. The infrastructure already exists for fueling stations. A simple retrofitting of the current gas pumps will allow them to pump biodiesel instead of diesel fuel.... and what now? WHAM, and entire infrastructure of biodiesel stations already exist. By using biodiesel, this would also mean that our entire transportation industry would not have to change either.... All trains, most busses, EVERY semi truck, and most farm vehicles use diesel engines.... Again, with a slight retro fitting of current engines, they can reliably burn biodiesel (made from soybeans)...

What do you all think about diesel engines now?

[GoodDayForADrive]

I just wish I knew more about the benefits of diesels before buying my car. I didn't even know Jettas came in a TDI model at the time I purchased my car. Oh well...

[Mr_Diesel]

Ohhh well... You'll trade that thing in for a TDI later on in the future, which is all that matters :twisted:

[HyperNut]

The thing that i like about biodiesel is all the carbon that is produced by the use of the fuel is reabsorbed into the plants that are grown to make more fuel, this makes the air pollution produced by a biodiesel car 0. Biodiesel already in use in cuba. The cubans use left over parts of the sugar they grow to produce the fuel. Biodiesel can be produced from almost any kind of plant. This means that it can be made from soy beans to corn husks. The fuel can even be made in a backyard. Think if one day you need gas, so you mow your lawn, and turn the grass into fuel...

[twig]

all i hear from that is cheap fuel....yay