Mysterious problem

[stinkysGTI]

Ok, some people say it's a lifter, some say it's timing chain related.

I took my car to a guy to check over the engine for stuff like vacuum leaks, ignition problems, just kinda general stuff. He didn't find anything. There is definitely a noise though coming from the top internals below the intake manifold. The guy didn't think it was a lifter because he said I'd have misfires and rough idle. He's suggesting it's the chain tensioner, but to check both tensioners, he said he'd have to drop the transmission for the lower one. That would be super expensive and I don't have the proper tools to do that here myself.

This morning on my way to drop it off, it died on me 3 times while in mid-drive, in gear, at different speeds. I'd be going along and it suddenly felt like I let off the accelerator with it in gear, and I had to take it out of gear, put it back in and pop the clutch to get it going again.

Now I'm getting kinda worried and it's killing me, I really need my car working normally again, but nobody knows what it is that's wrong... should I just go to the dealership? :cringe: :(

[Mr_Diesel]

The chain guide/tensioner is a common point of failure, but they usually last (at the very very least) 100,000 miles. If they were on their way out the chain would be making a lot of noise. If it's a ticking noise or a tink it's more than likely a lifter.

You should see if you can get a sound clip of the noise.

I suggest you stop driving it before a valve drops man!!!

[stinkysGTI]

Other than taking it there this morning, I haven't driven it in over a week, after I noticed the noise.

My car has just over 90k on it, 92-somethin.

When I go to get it, I'll try and get a sound clip with my camera and upload it. It's a hard noise to explain...

[Mr_Diesel]

Ticking lifter:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SRg8R8XllI0

Chain:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0xdtonoKlHE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kb2qjf-_KxA&feature=related

Rod Knock:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=49dffnDDH48&feature=related

Piston Slap (almost sounds like ticking lifters):

Listen closely at 32 seconds: http://youtube.com/watch?v=B71baM1pKP0

[stinkysGTI]

Thanks for the links Mr Diesel, a couple of those sounded close to my sound, but their's were more consistent. Mine only makes a noise at mid range rpm's. It almost sounds like a chain/lifter combo after listening to those.

Here's the video I just made. Sorry about the quality, I didn't have anyone to hit the accelerator for me, so I just shoved my hand as far as I could reach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coeIvlK7FtI

if the audio quality is too crappy, I can try and make another one later when the wind dies down

[Mr_Diesel]

That sounds like chains to me.... At the very least you should check out the tensioners and see what they look like. But the chains don't explain the bucking and cutting out... It might just be coincidence.

[stinkysGTI]

I was told to replace the lower tensioner, I have to separate the transmission. Is that true?

[Mr_Diesel]

That's true. I think you can check the condition of everything without removing the trans though... just the upper chain cover.

[stinkysGTI]

ok, I'll check it out. Hopefully it's top side :)

[stinkysGTI]

Alright, I went to a VW dealer to have somebody listen to it to see what they thought. This guy says it's that [i can't remember what it's called] thing where the upper intake connects to the lower piece. I remember when I changed the camshafts, there was this long roller thing right there. Kinda like a long cylinder-shaped open/close valve. I assumed it controlled how much air actually went in since it was connected to some kind of pump that could have various amounts of open/close... does that make sense? :D

So he said it was the bearings on that thing. It kinda makes sense because of the random dying since it would mimic a vacuum leak. Perhaps I somehow damaged it when I did the cams or something.

So far, that's 3 different opinions. Lifter, chain and that roller thingy.

I'm gonna try and look it up after I do some fish tank maintenance to see what the name of it is.

[stinkysGTI]

ok, I think it's called Rotary Crossover Valve [according to Bentley]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=283593
A bunch of the people were describing the same kind of tapping/rattling. It's easy to replace, so I just might do it this weekend to eliminate a possibility.

[zukgod1]

Sounds like you have it figured out.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya..

[Mr_Diesel]

WTF IS THAT? A rotary crossover valve?:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[stinkysGTI]

I know, a ridiculous name huh :)

It's also called the Intake Manifold Shift Rod

I guess it regulates how much air is passing through at certain rpm's to adjust torque. That's what I read anyway.

So far, I've found multiple forum threads on the topic and it seems pretty common and all have similar descriptions about their noise which were also diagnosed by other people as being a lifter... just like what happened to me.

I'm feeling good about it being the problem, but don't wanna get my hopes up and I won't know for sure till this weekend when I'll have time to change it.

[Mr_Diesel]

I had no idea such a device existed. Eh... technology continues improves everything!

[stinkysGTI]

So I hit up another dealership to see what they said also, and it was the same thing; intake manifold shift rod. So I ordered it for 100 bucks. That's a lot for a tube of plastic and I could've just gotten the bushings for it to save some money, but figured I might as well just replace the whole thing to be safe.

They won't have it till Monday or Tuesday, so I have to wait till then to see how it goes. The guy also said it was safe to drive and wouldn't do any damage. It just probably won't run perfectly all the time.

Also, I asked him about my sudden stalling and he said it was probably because the shift rod got stuck and suffocated the engine and me popping it back in gear knocked it loose again. So hopefully this thing will fix all of my issues.

by the way Diesel, don't feel bad about not knowing what that thing is. Only one guy at the dealership knew what I was talking about and it took two guys about 10 minutes just to find it on the computer :) I'll take pictures of it and post em when I change it next week.

[Mr_Diesel]

by the way Diesel, don't feel bad about not knowing what that thing is. Only one guy at the dealership knew what I was talking about

:evil::evil::evil:!!!

Oh well... haha. Hey, on all those maintenance parts you should atleast checkout Germanautoparts.com first. I don't think they would have something obscure as that, but it's worth checking over the dealer ;).

[zukgod1]

:) I'll take pictures of it and post em when I change it next week.


Yes, please do.

I want to see what's up.

[stinkysGTI]

That part wasn't there, but they had really good deals on some stuff. I need a headlight and the cheapest I found was about 250 [w/foglight] and they want 175 :)

Thanks for the link ;)

[stinkysGTI]

So I was finally able to change out that intake shift rod. It was really easy to get to and only took me about 20 minutes total. The bushings on the old one were kinda warped and didn't want to spin very well.

Here's the old a new one side by side:
http://www.jessemorganonline.com/dub/old-n-new.jpg

New one up against where it goes.
http://www.jessemorganonline.com/dub/against-intake.jpg

This is the side it comes out:
http://www.jessemorganonline.com/dub/removal-end.jpg

This is the opposite end. I read you need to remove the little end cap to relieve pressure and to be sure the little piece won't fall into the lower intake.
http://www.jessemorganonline.com/dub/opposite-end.jpg

I also read when installing, make sure it's at 1 o'clock... whatever that means. I'm not sure what exactly was suppose to be at 1. I just put it in the way it was when I removed the old one and no problems.

As soon as I started it, I could tell the difference. It sounded and felt much better. I'm still noticing a tiny bit of noise and I'm thinking it's timing chain related. I have just over 93k on it, so I'm thinking it'd be a good idea anyway. The belt went out in my buddy's Audi and it messed all kinds of stuff up.

[stinkysGTI]

by the way, I also signed up for a DubHost account and I threw some random images up there