Brings a whole new meaning to the "Kompressor".

[HyperNut]

If you really want to make it quick use compressed air

[jettadude]

If you really want to make it quick use compressed air
how so?

[sausageburner]

If you really want to make it quick use compressed air

yeah... details please.

[HyperNut]

It works on the same principle as a turbo, but a turbo saps its power off the engine, which will reduce hp, its just that a turbo adds enough hp to make up for the reduction, but if one were to use compressed air instead it would improve performance over a turbo in the short term because it wouldn't be getting its power off the engine at the time it was being used. Compressed air would also add the pneumatic power of the air to the engine. I have done a lot of research into this, specifically for the 1.8 8v, because i think that it may be able to handle the enormous stress of the boost. This would also eliminate the need for spark plugs, and a starter if done correctly.

[HyperNut]

Right now im looking for a mechanic in the Portland OR area that is willing to modify a small engine to my specs. Its hard to find someone that will do it because it will probably create a very large explosion

[sausageburner]

Right now im looking for a mechanic in the Portland OR area that is willing to modify a small engine to my specs. Its hard to find someone that will do it because it will probably create a very large explosion

that could be a problem...

[Mr_Diesel]

It works on the same principle as a turbo, but a turbo saps its power off the engine, which will reduce hp, its just that a turbo adds enough hp to make up for the reduction, but if one were to use compressed air instead it would improve performance over a turbo in the short term because it wouldn't be getting its power off the engine at the time it was being used. Compressed air would also add the pneumatic power of the air to the engine. I have done a lot of research into this, specifically for the 1.8 8v, because i think that it may be able to handle the enormous stress of the boost. This would also eliminate the need for spark plugs, and a starter if done correctly.

Turbochargers do not sap power... Mabey 1 or 2 hp from exhaust restrictions... If that.

[HyperNut]

Its not the amount of power that a turbocharger saps that makes it slower then compressed gas, its that the turbo is dependant on the engine to supply it with power. With compressed gas however the energy is already there, in storage. If one wanted to put a 10 PSI boost into an engine for 10 seconds from a compressed gas tank all that person would need to do is program a computer to do it for them, without lag. A turbo must spin up, and stay spinning in order for it to keep providing power.
Another advantage to compressed gas is that in everyday driving a turbo is only needed while moving, but it is not needed at all at a stoplight, or if traffic is moving slow. With compressed gas while one is sitting at a stoplight or not needing the extra power it is possible to turn off the compressed gas, recharge it, and not be sucking the gas that a turbo needs, it would provide better fuel economy when it is not needed, and will only come on when it is needed, giving greater control to the driver.
A third advantage to compressed gas is that a turbo can only provide a small boost, whereas compressed gas can provide a 5000 PSI boost just as easily as a 10 PSI boost. This means that with an engine that is build to withstand the pressure, a 1.8L engine may be able to outrun a much larger engine while racing, but everyday driving would still get the same 30 – 35 mpg that the driver is used to.

[jettadude]

ok that is all nice and good but where do you plan on injecting the air?

[HyperNut]

either an engine valve per cylinder or or an elaborate system on the origional air intake

[Mortal_Wombat]

i hope you plan on getting some exotic engine management system
otherwise have fun running so lean it handgrenades
also i wont believe it till i see it :)

[HyperNut]

i am almost 100% sure that the first attempt of this will create a very large explosion, which is why im having problems finding a mechanic to do it

[Mr_Diesel]

What about the 100lb tank that you are gonna have to use to hold even 100psi? 100lbs is a significant weight addition to small car like a jetta.

[HyperNut]

A carbon fiber wrap tank would be the best choice for tanks becuase its light weight and its strong enough to not explode, and if it for some reason is punctured, ie car wreak, it won't send out shrapnel. A carbon fiber wrap tank can also hold a LOT more psi then a normal metal tank, and although i won't be putting 5000+ psi into the engine

As an example i went to ebay and found a paintball tank for sale, the specs are: 68 cubic inch Fiber Glass 3000 psi tank

v1,p1 = v2,p2

68 Inches^3 * 3000 PSI = 6800 inches^3 of air at 30 psi
30 psi

thats 111.432 L

a standard 1.8L engine uses 1.8L of fuel and air per 2 revolutions. If it were ONLY using air it would go through 7555 revolutions before it ran out.

the rest of the specs for this tank are:
Weight (without regulator) : 2.5 lb
Weight (with regulator) : 3.6 lb
Length (straight) : 5 in
Length (total) : 12.0 in
Diameter : 4.0 in

I did all the math when i was very tired, so if something dosn't add up tell me and i will double check it.

[sausageburner]

A carbon fiber wrap tank would be the best choice for tanks becuase its light weight and its strong enough to not explode, and if it for some reason is punctured, ie car wreak, it won't send out shrapnel. A carbon fiber wrap tank can also hold a LOT more psi then a normal metal tank, and although i won't be putting 5000+ psi into the engine

As an example i went to ebay and found a paintball tank for sale, the specs are: 68 cubic inch Fiber Glass 3000 psi tank

v1,p1 = v2,p2

68 Inches^3 * 3000 PSI = 6800 inches^3 of air at 30 psi
30 psi

thats 111.432 L

a standard 1.8L engine uses 1.8L of fuel and air per 2 revolutions. If it were ONLY using air it would go through 7555 revolutions before it ran out.

the rest of the specs for this tank are:
Weight (without regulator) : 2.5 lb
Weight (with regulator) : 3.6 lb
Length (straight) : 5 in
Length (total) : 12.0 in
Diameter : 4.0 in

I did all the math when i was very tired, so if something dosn't add up tell me and i will double check it.

Looks good to me... :?

[Mortal_Wombat]

i said it once i will will say it again..i wont believe it till i see it :)

[Mr_Diesel]

A carbon fiber wrap tank would be the best choice for tanks becuase its light weight and its strong enough to not explode, and if it for some reason is punctured, ie car wreak, it won't send out shrapnel. A carbon fiber wrap tank can also hold a LOT more psi then a normal metal tank, and although i won't be putting 5000+ psi into the engine

As an example i went to ebay and found a paintball tank for sale, the specs are: 68 cubic inch Fiber Glass 3000 psi tank

v1,p1 = v2,p2

68 Inches^3 * 3000 PSI = 6800 inches^3 of air at 30 psi
30 psi

thats 111.432 L

a standard 1.8L engine uses 1.8L of fuel and air per 2 revolutions. If it were ONLY using air it would go through 7555 revolutions before it ran out.

the rest of the specs for this tank are:
Weight (without regulator) : 2.5 lb
Weight (with regulator) : 3.6 lb
Length (straight) : 5 in
Length (total) : 12.0 in
Diameter : 4.0 in

I did all the math when i was very tired, so if something dosn't add up tell me and i will double check it.


Don't forget to times by cramers theory, to add up the quadratic geometry of the prabolic dimentions of your trapezoid.

[sausageburner]

Don't forget to times by cramers theory, to add up the quadratic geometry of the prabolic dimentions of your trapezoid.

I already checked that stuff out for him, still worked out okay! 8)

[HyperNut]

I think im going to test this on an rc car motor because of cost. Im going to get one of my paintball tanks filled with air and a reg valve and attach it to the air intake for the motor, it will only run for a very short ammount of time, but the most that could happen is that it will freeze the motor, because of temp differences.

[sausageburner]

sounds good, let us know how it goes!

[Mr_Diesel]

Like said... make sure you account for the parabolic geometry of your trapezoids.

[Mortal_Wombat]

well your gonna need to flow a lot of gas....and even if it does lockup it may look like its working when just the air itself is making it turn over

[sausageburner]

Like said... make sure you account for the parabolic geometry of your trapezoids.

What would we do without Cramer's theory?

[jettadude]

rule it out...duh... :lol:

[JF]

if i may add something.........the air you get in tanks (even oxygen tanks used for scuba diving) is A LOT differant than the air in the atmosphere. therefore affecting combustion. so keep that in mind. second, you have to account for a couple of things. 1. friction loss in whatever piping you are using. 2.pressure loss if you upsize the piping (which you would have to to make a slight differance if you are injecting it into the TB or intake)


anyway, you would need a huge tank to supply the air you need to keep it goin for just a few minutes. your better off coming up with a way to toggle the turbo on and off. and even if you did get it to work your talking about boosting to 30psi? HAHAHA no offense but most engines have trouble with 20. your giong to blast a cylinder right through the hood. (or worse)

[HyperNut]

Thanks for the input, let me try to answer some of your questions.

if i may add something.........the air you get in tanks (even oxygen tanks used for scuba diving) is A LOT differant than the air in the atmosphere. therefore affecting combustion.

Im going to use compressed air from the atmosphere.

anyway, you would need a huge tank to supply the air you need to keep it goin for just a few minutes.

In the final version there will be a compressor in the car to refill the tanks when not needing extra power, like at a stoplight. This system is not meant to be always on either, its not even meant to be on when accelerating, its meant to be variable on rpm, but until I have a working model to dyno I cannot design a chip to control the frequency or amount of boost.

and even if you did get it to work your talking about boosting to 30psi? HAHAHA no offense but most engines have trouble with 20. your giong to blast a cylinder right through the hood. (or worse)

That’s the problem I’m trying to resolve currently, because I’m not thinking just a 30psi boost, I’m thinking a lot higher. I believe that my final design will be 2 different types of engines combined into one.

well your gonna need to flow a lot of gas....and even if it does lockup it may look like its working when just the air itself is making it turn over

Yeah, that will be a problem. I’m thinking about pressurizing the gas tank to about 1 or 2 PSI to increase fuel input to the motor. The main problem with this however is that if I put too much pressure to the tank it will combust itself and cause a very large explosion. This is another reason why I’m going to use an rc car for the prototype, ill turn it on by radio.

Thanks for the input everyone and please keep it coming. If you can think of a way that this will fail, especially if it will result in bodily injury or death to me or anyone near it, please let me know, because I don’t want to overlook anything when I’m dealing with something that can potentially explode this big.

[Gotturbo]

:? Wow.

[sausageburner]

:? Wow.

I second that...

[Mr_Diesel]

It'll never work...

[Mortal_Wombat]

did he blow himself up yet?

[Gotturbo]

I havent seen any recent posts from him :?

[Mortal_Wombat]

i guess he did 8O

[HyperNut]

Na, im still here, just out of town for a few

[sausageburner]

damn! I was hoping he blew himself up! :wink:

[Mr_Diesel]

Now now children.

[HyperNut]

Ok, little update here. I am still looking for some sort of ICU engine to do this too. The RC car idea isn't as easy as i had thought, im having problems finding used RC cars that are in good shape. I have heard, from a good source, something about mini s******s with rotary engines. Now this person is not in the habbit of talking out his ass, and i don't think that he was, but i know nothing about this, does anyone else? I believe that a rotary engine would probably work better, as in maybe not explode, because of the high red line. If anyone knows something about this it would be very usefull, or if he is full of it i'll just continue to look for rc cars.

[Mr_Diesel]

Rotary engines love boost! But detonation will KILL your rotors in 30 seconds. If you run 3000psi of boost better make sure you get some 500 octane fuel.

[burn_your_money]

Hypernut, you are crazy, and I love it.
I know this isn't the same, but could you just hook an electic blower motor up to the intake for some extra boost? That would be alot easier to toggle on and off, and I think it would increase your chances of you surviving the first test.

[Mortal_Wombat]

electric blowers just dont work
they dont push enough CFM's to force any air into the engine
there is like ONE electric supercharger that i know of and it cost like 3,000 and take 2 or 3 car batterys to run, nice :roll:

this will explain why. http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0237/article.html

[burn_your_money]

yeah that sound's pretty crappy...How many CFM do you need?

[Mortal_Wombat]

i dunno
but its way more than any you can slap on your car can make

[jettadude]

several hundred cfm's

[chewy]

dumbest idea ever. :?:

[Mr_Diesel]

dumbest idea ever. :?:

ROTFL :lol: :D :D :D

[2002maniac]

lol, that could NEVER work! Think of the volume! Heres an example; I dive, I can only breathe off a tank for 30-45 minutes before I have to go up. How much does an engine breathe compared to a human? A hella lot more! it might be feasable for a 1/4 mile car. But I doubt it. And think of this, if you pressurize your intake manifold, it's all coming straight out of the airfilter as soon as you crack the throttle! LMAO!! ROTFL!!

[Mr_Diesel]

lol, that could NEVER work! Think of the volume! Heres an example; I dive, I can only breathe off a tank for 30-45 minutes before I have to go up. How much does an engine breathe compared to a human? A hella lot more! it might be feasable for a 1/4 mile car. But I doubt it. And think of this, if you pressurize your intake manifold, it's all coming straight out of the airfilter as soon as you crack the throttle! LMAO!! ROTFL!!

He thinks he's got all that figured out... I guess he's working on a lawnmower model.

[burn_your_money]

It would be pretty sweet if he can make it work though....