Massive Oil Leak

[MrBurritoMan]

i don't know if you guys remember what i typed in the old version of the forum so i will type it again...

i was going to go to the shooting range one day and as i was going to my friends house to load up all the necessary equipment my precious MkIII Puked its guts all over his driveway just as a pulled in. the funny thing to this is i didn't notice anything at first; i just wanted to stop for a bit and adjust my tail pipe because it was rattling. as i got to the back of the car i noticed the trail of oil and my heart dropped. not only did i immediately know that it was from my car i also knew it wasn't good because my car never leaks...EVER! i ran to the front of the car and popped the hood only to be horrified even more thoroughly than i was prepared. there was oil all over the right side of the engine compartment. it was covering the transmission, master brake cylinder, and drivers side of the firewall. i looked on the ground under the car to see how much oil my car was missing and was horrified all over again. the puddle was huge and growing by the second; I'm glad that i had the sense to turn off my car when i got out otherwise i could have fubared up my engine.

it appears from the puddle that what happened happened right when i stopped and put the car in to park however i didn't think things through at the time and immediately assumed that it was my engine because i checked all my fluids and the oil was abnormally low (which i noted as being strange because i keep a close eye on these things). i preformed a simple test this last weekend at my friend's house. the funny thing about all this is when this happened i was pulling up to my friends shop my car puked about 5 feet off of a lift and so when i was working on my car i just rolled it on to the lift and i was in business... my friends Girlfriend started my car and i had my head under the hood looking for leaks with my other friend. another friend of mine was under the car looking for leaks on that end and had a bowl to catch anything that developed. i discovered that my car is leaking from the TRANSMISSION????? we turned the car on and let it idle for a min or so and i didn't see anything. then after i checked the oil and saw it was still in the engine i decided we needed to let things warm up a little more. so after letting it idle for a couple more minuets it started to leak from where the gear selector cable comes out of the transmission. i have a 4 speed automatic. i will post a drawing in a second to illustrate exactly where it was coming out of. i looked at what came out and it was mostly dirty engine oil with a tint of red to it. does this mean that my fluids have mixed somehow???? any thoughts so far? sorry for the novel, TIA!!!

[burn_your_money]

I can't see your oil and tranny fluid mixing. That would require two seperate seals to fail (rear main and tranny shaft seal)
Are all the plugs on your tranny?

[MrBurritoMan]

it has been sealed ever since i owned the vehicle. no leaks or anything...until now of course.

[burn_your_money]

How old is the fluid in it?

[MrBurritoMan]

the engine oil is about 10 months old. i live close to work and haven't put many miles on the car.

i have no idea how old the transmission fluid is. i have always been meaning to get it changed out, just never had the time. guess my dub is getting its revenge on me because of this.

[MrBurritoMan]

well i managed to bargain with a local VW technician and he is going to try and meet me at my friends house to take a look at it. i have been looking at the part drawings and manuals since this thing happened and now that i know where the leak is coming from i am even more stumped than when i started. its too bad VW was so careful in their engineering these cars. if it was a Honda or some other beater i would have thrown it away long ago. dang VWs and their fun-driving-ness...:?

[burn_your_money]

I'm not familiar with autos, and this post may just prove that but is it possible that the tranny fluid filter clogged up and is causing excessive pressure in half the tranny?

[MrBurritoMan]

I'm not familiar with autos, and this post may just prove that but is it possible that the tranny fluid filter clogged up and is causing excessive pressure in half the tranny?
that is a definate possibility; i will look in to it.

that VW tech never appeared. looks like i will be going at this solo. i will try and post some pics of the problem for you guys. one thing is for sure, i d not have the money to hire someone to do this.

[MrBurritoMan]

i had the tech come over last Saturday and he said it could be just the gasket for the oil cooler on the top of the tranny. has anyone changed one of these before?? im going to start reading up on it however if anyone has done this experienced opinion is much more valuable to me. thanks for your help so far!!

[MrBurritoMan]

i just found some pictures i took while working on my car about a week ago.

here i just pulled off the transmission plug and this is what came out:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/DirtyTransmissionFluid.jpg

this is what it looked like in the pan:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/OldTransmissionFluid.jpg

from what i know this is pretty dirty, probably never changed, fluid. luckily i never noticed much suck to the magnet in the bottom of the pan so i might just be lucky enough to get by on this transmission for a little longer. any thoughts? thanks!!

[burn_your_money]

I've seen worse, much worse actually. You might want to do a flush or two. I think you put in new fluid and drive for 1000miles and then change it again, I forget. www.bobistheoi**uy.com has some good info on his forum about fluids.

[MrBurritoMan]

i know i will have to do two complete flushes on this thing to get all the crap cleaned out. i did find something new though. i am almost 90% sure that it is leaking from the selector shaft on the top of the trans. when i ran the car looking for leaks it was flowing from right around that area and i am pretty sure thats where it is coming from. anyone know how to change that gasket or check it? i looked at the oil cooler gaskets and they are intact. other than that im not sure where else it might be coming from. the selector shaft leak does fit in to the story quite well though. the car didn't leak at all when it was cold however once it warmed up while driving to my friends all it took was putting it in to park from drive once i reached his house for all that oil to come gushing out. any thoughts/ suggestions? thanks in advance!!

-MrBurritoMan

[burn_your_money]

usually the bentley lists how to change all the tranny seals

[MrBurritoMan]

ok, i thought it might however i wasn't certain because its not working on my lappy ATM. dang it. i will have to get that going. i will check it and let you guys know what i find. thanks!!

[burn_your_money]

best of luck

[MrBurritoMan]

i have looked through the bentley manual several times and it doesn't show much in the way of automatic transmissions. it does list in detail how to repair manual ones though. just goes to show that the didn't think much of them then either. does anyone know where in the manual it might mention how to change this gasket out. i have the computer version and have tried searching for terms like "selector shaft", "transmission gasket" and nothing comes up even close to what i need. better yet anyone attempted something likes this? any information or any pointers in the right direction would be greatly appriceated!!

[burn_your_money]

If your stealership is like mine, I'd just go in and ask; or any of the local tranny shops should be able to help. I could check in my mk1 bentley for you

[MrBurritoMan]

ill go in and poke around when im in there. any information you can get even if it is for the mk1 would be helpful. i cannot find anything on the selector shaft gasket or selector shaft for that matter in my bentley manual. thanks for your help,

-MrBurritoMan

[burn_your_money]

I can't find my bentley right now, I had it a few hours ago but I forget where I put it. I checked my Haynes and it was useless as expected

[MrBurritoMan]

i just tried to get the gasket out and was unsucessful. i don't have any idea how this thing could come out. i am going to have to hold off for now before i damage my transmission. i managed to get this far without breaking anything terribly expensive, i kinda wanna keep it that way. i will ask some guys at the VW stealership if they have any ideas. other than that i am not going to proceed with this unless i know what to do before hand. if anyone is just joining this thread i am trying to find out how to remove the selector shaft gasket on my tranny. any advice or experiance is greatly appriceated!!

[burn_your_money]

I found my bentley. It's in my backseat. The only problem is that my car is at my garage due to a rotted coolant pipe. Once I fix it and get it home I'll see what I can find for you

[Mr_Diesel]

I'm not an automatic genius, but I was pretty sure automatic transmission fluid was bright RED!... Also that technician is smoking crack, the oil cooler is nowhere near the transmission. It's on the front of the block on 2.0s (as it is on most volkswagens.

[MrBurritoMan]

no no no the transmission oil cooler. it mounts to the top of the transmission and has coolant running through it.

either way that isn't it because the leak is coming from the other side of the transmission. im pretty certain that it is the selector shaft gasket however i just can't get the blasted thing out. im just praying that i don't have to pull the tranny.

[MrBurritoMan]

i called the dealership and they said that the gasket came out of a tranny they had there with very little force. i think that mine is heat treated in there. they also said to use some penitrating oil and try to get it out that way. i asked whether or not the oil would affect the transmission oil or parts; they said it would not. anyone tried this?

[burn_your_money]

I got my bentley. All I have is a picture/exploded view. Is that of any use to you?

[KimmySon12]

haha, that rhymed...

[Mr_Diesel]

If you were asking if MOTOR oil will be fine in your TRANSMISSION I would say no. But then again, I am not the guy to be asking about automatics. The only automatic I have ever owned was a Mercedes and I never had to work on it because it never broke.

Anyway, ATF is a detergent that keeps debris from building up around the valves in your tranmission. Ultimately the fluid in an automatic is just hydraulic fluid which cannot be compressed. Motor oil cannot be compressed, but it lacks detergents found in ATF. I would definatly not run the car with motor oil in the transmission. Tow it to the shop you have it fixed at.

If this is not what you were talking about then once again, ignore this comment.

[burn_your_money]

I think he meant putting a bit of oil on the seal to try and loosen it.

I don't see the harm in it, but I really don't know what I am talking about

[MrBurritoMan]

I think he meant putting a bit of oil on the seal to try and loosen it.

I don't see the harm in it, but I really don't know what I am talking about

correct. i am going to try and saturate the thing tonight then try again tomorrow morning. hopefully this thing will come out like the guy at the dealership said it did for him.

thanks for your suggestions and comments so far :D

-MrBurritoMan

[MrBurritoMan]

well its not budging at all. does anyone know what i might be able to take off the transmission to get to the other side of that gasket? im thinking that tapping that thing out from the other side might be my only option. thanks for your help so far guys!! ;)

-MrBurritoMan

[burn_your_money]

Do you have a picture? I'm not familiar with MK3 engine bays yet

[MrBurritoMan]

Do you have a picture? I'm not familiar with MK3 engine bays yet

kind of afraid you would ask that because i keep on forgetting to take a picture. well it looks like thats the next thing on my list. let me see if i can find a picture on the internet in the meantime. :rolleyes:

[MrBurritoMan]

i just found this drawing:
http://www.volkstechnik.com/images/code5.gif
the selector lever is what the #2 is pointing at. when you take that off there is a gasket that goes around the selector shaft, that is what i am trying to replace.

here is a drawing off of etka:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/VW096TransmissionDrawing321-50.jpg
the gasket itself is part #3 in this picture.

i will try and take a picture of the top of my transmission later. thanks for your help!

[MrBurritoMan]

*bump*

no suggestions or comments?

[jettadude]

im retarted when it comes to transmissions. sorry. my best susgestion is to find a junkyard pull another trans and start swapping.

[burn_your_money]

yeah that's a good idea. Hit up a J-yard and try and remove the seal on the J-yard tranny. Then you don't need to worry about messing it up

[MrBurritoMan]

well after almost a year of problems at work and at home i finally have time to work on my poor neglected Jetta.

i should be removing the transmission this week. that would allow me to remove the shifting bar and attach a tool that i am fabricating for this job.

it will have claws on it that will go in the hole and grab on the each side of the busing. it will allow me to then attach a slide hammer to tap the gasket out.

i can't believe i have to go through all this trouble for such a pain in the but bushing. thankfully though with regular maintenance on the transmission's behalf this shouldn't happen again.

i have been wondering if there was a way to attach a fill tube and dipstick to my automatic so it would be easier to keep an eye on things. has anyone done this or seen it done? i noticed in etka that there were versions of the automatic that looked pretty similar to mine with a dipstick tube in the same place as my capped off hole. maybe i can search with the part numbers and simply replace the parts....we shall see...

many thanks guys. hopefully this beast will be on the road soon!

[Mr_Diesel]

Welcome back :D Are you talking about item numbers 23-26 on that drawing above?

[MrBurritoMan]

Welcome back :D Are you talking about item numbers 23-26 on that drawing above?

thanks!

yeah as far as the dipstick and tube are concerned those are the parts i want to change out. i did find someone on the VWvortex boards who did it. im waiting for him to tell me what parts he had to change.

click me (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3636122)

as far as that dang bushing goes it is going to be an adventure to get out. :?

[Mr_Diesel]

If you need any auto tranny parts let me know... I've got a vr6 passat with an auto tranny that I will be rippin out soon. The transmission cases look identical except for the bell housing :) Good luck and keep me posted on your dipstick mission :D

[zukgod1]

I really REALLY REALLY want a auto for my mk2 :(

[Mr_Diesel]

Bah... don't build a bad ass engine only to have 35% of the power lost in the gearbox, man...

[twig]

i have to say that if i see a really nice car, and look inside to see an automatic as well, it's very disappointing.

[zukgod1]

It's just for the type of driving I do the auto would be great. I'm lazy.

[Mr_Diesel]

How many miles your commute there, zuk?

[zukgod1]

124 round trip (approx).
most of it is freeway, if I could get an auto trans with a lock up converter I would be golden on the freeway..

[Mr_Diesel]

They make a lockup converter... it's called 5th gear and a clutch disk! Come on... manual commuting can't be that bad.

[zukgod1]

They make a lockup converter... it's called 5th gear and a clutch disk! Come on... manual commuting can't be that bad.


It really isn't until winter hits and there are a bunch of stupid people on the freeway driving like they have never seen snow before. At that point my knee gets REALLY mad at me and I get really tired of shifting..

Stupid traffic anyway.

[MrBurritoMan]

ok, i will try to remove the transmission from the car tomorrow (Saturday) and i am wondering if you guys have any tips for me to make this as painless as possible.

here is my existing plan let me know what you guys think.

1st i will create a brace that will sit across the engine bay on top of the sides of the compartment (where the sides of the hood meet the front quarter panels). this seems like a strong area and the Bentley manual illustrates a special tool that rests on the sides so i would assume it would be alright.

2nd chain and strap the engine to the cross brace.

3rd strap the transmission and attach it to a overhead winch.

4th unbolt the transmission from its motor mount then disconnect it from the engine. (the trans-axles have already been disconnected as well as all electrical.

5th disengage it from the engine and carefully lift it out of the engine compartment.


sound good?

[Mr_Diesel]

The transmission will come out the bottom... You don't need to remove the engine to get the transmission out. Use this procedure.

Put the car on jack stands. Remove the CV axles from the transmission flanges. Remove all hoses and wires from the transmission. Support the engine from underneath with a floor jack. (put the jack on the oil pan). Remove the transmission mount bolt (back right area of the engine bay... 17mm). Jack the engine transmission up about 1/2 inch. Unbolt the front engine mount. Wiggle the transmission free from the engine. Once the transmission is a few inches away from the engine, lower the floor jack about 2 or 3 inches (this will allow you to get the transmission to clear the chassis. The engine will sit lop-sided in the engine bay when you do this.) It might take you 10 or 20 mins to wiggle the tranny free. Have somebody help you lower the transmission to the ground.

The goods come out the bottom on VW's not up. The engine and transmission wont' fit through the top.

Good luck :)

[MrBurritoMan]

The transmission will come out the bottom... You don't need to remove the engine to get the transmission out. Use this procedure.

Put the car on jack stands. Remove the CV axles from the transmission flanges. Remove all hoses and wires from the transmission. Support the engine from underneath with a floor jack. (put the jack on the oil pan). Remove the transmission mount bolt (back right area of the engine bay... 17mm). Jack the engine transmission up about 1/2 inch. Unbolt the front engine mount. Wiggle the transmission free from the engine. Once the transmission is a few inches away from the engine, lower the floor jack about 2 or 3 inches (this will allow you to get the transmission to clear the chassis. The engine will sit lop-sided in the engine bay when you do this.) It might take you 10 or 20 mins to wiggle the tranny free. Have somebody help you lower the transmission to the ground.

The goods come out the bottom on VW's not up. The engine and transmission wont' fit through the top.

Good luck :)

i wanted to leave the engine in the car for a few reasons one of them being it runs perfectly and i don't want to mess with it and risk screwing it up. the other thing is my air conditioning works surprisingly well for a 10 year old car; in fact it works better than my moms 2002 Toyota Camry. i didn't want to have to mess with the air conditioning compressor and all the associated lines and such. that's why i wanted to us a metal beam to brace it to the compartment walls.

are you sure that the power steering, air conditioning, and coolant lines will be ok if i let the engine balance on two mounts? seems kinda iffy to me especially if with a cross brace and chain i can brace it.

i do like your idea of using the hydraulic jack however i don't it would be a good idea to balance the transmission on the jack. my worst fear in doing this is dropping my engine or transmission, i don't want to damage anything because i already have a lot of work to do on this car :?.

[Mr_Diesel]

Ohh I totally agree... don't remove the engine unless necessary. Too much work anyway.

You can use the beam if you want, but really... the jack is the best way to do it. The rear mount can hold the entire weight of the engine if it had to, but since you'll have the floor jack under the engine that won't even be an issue. Seriously... I've done this dozens of times and this is how most shops do it. The power steering, coolant and ac lines will be fine. There is lots of extra slack just pay attention to everythign as you raise and lower the engine. You actually won't be supporting on 2 mounts, you'll be supporting on one engine mount and the floor jack. The front engine mount and transmission mount will be undone.

The manual suggests you use the volkswagen special tool (beam) to support the engine but it's like $350. And it's not just a "beam". It's got racheting straps, balancers, hangers in the correct places and a way to safely mount it on the engine bay walls without scratching or denting anything. The beam is also suggested because the factory procedure involves the use of a car lift... something I'm betting you don't have. If you engineer your own beam and chain it up you have no way to manuever/raise/lower the engine making it next to impossible to get the transmission free. It's a tight fit for a manual transmission and probably twice as difficult with an automatic. Use the jack, man.

If you REALLY don't want to use a jack, then I would atleast suggest you use an engine lift so you can raise and lower the engine as needed.

Do you have a bentley manual?

[MrBurritoMan]

...The beam is also suggested because the factory procedure involves the use of a car lift... something I'm betting you don't have.
you wager incorrectly my friend :). this is why i want to mount the engine to the body so i can use the lift then lower the transmission to a cart.

If you engineer your own beam and chain it up you have no way to maneuver/raise/lower the engine making it next to impossible to get the transmission free. It's a tight fit for a manual transmission and probably twice as difficult with an automatic. Use the jack, man.

i probably will use the jack however i planned to have it attached to the transmission.

If you REALLY don't want to use a jack, then I would at least suggest you use an engine lift so you can raise and lower the engine as needed.

Do you have a Bentley manual?
i wanted to raise and lower the transmission with a jack and winch.

yep i have a Bentley manual.

[Mr_Diesel]

Well I'll be damned. :D It just seems like the beam is so much more work. I personally think it's more work to use a beam and lift considering how easy it is to get a trans out on jack stands and floor jack... but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Let me know how it goes.

[MrBurritoMan]

ok made some progress this last weekend before the weather turned on me.

i built the beam from scraps that were lying around then i removed the engine mount bolts from the transmission and middle.

then i used a jack on the transmission to raise it up on that side. this allowed me to chain the engine to the beam and when it was as tight as i could get it i released the jack. with this done the weight of the right side of the engine and transmission are now on the beam.

i checked the clearance and there is a 1" gap between both engine mounts and transmission, the chain is taught, and the bar is solid. this Saturday i will push the car onto a lift (just out of the picture) and use a engine crane to lower the transmission to a cart so i can wheel it into the shop for dis-assembly.

here are some pictures of my progress so far.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_EngineCompartment-w-Beam-Overall.jpg
Click for Bigger Picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/EngineCompartment-w-Beam-Overall.jpg)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_EngineCompartment-w-beam-angle.jpg
Click for Bigger Picture (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/EngineCompartment-w-beam-angle.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_EngineCompartment-Beam-Truss.jpg
Click for Bigger Picture (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/EngineCompartment-Beam-Truss.jpg)
i welded the trusses to be quite strong. i also added a pad on the bottom so it wouldn't destroy the compartment edge and a pad on the top so i could close the hood and not damage anything.

should be able to get it out this weekend :p.

[zukgod1]

The only thing I would have done a little different is to make the feet where it sits on the inner fender a little longer to keep the beam from twisting. The last one I built I made them a tad small and it wanted to twist one I had the trans unbolted from the engine.

Looks like your getting it done though..

[Mr_Diesel]

Neat! By the way, the transmissions are not that heavy. One person can lift it. If your doing it alone your way sounds good... if you got a helper, just put it on the lift and wiggle it out... No need for a crane. Anyway... neat pictures. Good luck with the rest of the disassembly.

[MrBurritoMan]

Neat! By the way, the transmissions are not that heavy. One person can lift it. If your doing it alone your way sounds good... if you got a helper, just put it on the lift and wiggle it out... No need for a crane. Anyway... neat pictures. Good luck with the rest of the disassembly.

well i would hate to be the person to say this but it doesn't seem that things are going to work that easily. i tried this weekend to remove the transmission and i am getting hung up in a few spots. first off i cannot get it past the torque converter without having the differential hit the left (from the driver's seat) most engine mount. i would like to consult my Bentley manual however the software isn't letting me register it at the moment so that is a no-go.

here are some pictures.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_top-viewoftheproblemwiththetorqueco.jpg
Click for bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/top-viewoftheproblemwiththetorqueco.jpg)
this is about as far as i can get it off of the torque converter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_top-viewoftheproblemwiththeenginemo.jpg
Click for bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/top-viewoftheproblemwiththeenginemo.jpg)
here is what it is hitting (just to the right of those four shiny screw holes)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_sideviewoftheproblem.jpg
Click for bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/sideviewoftheproblem.jpg)
here is a side view of the problem spot. i cannot get it past that point. if i could then it would be just fine as there is plenty of room in front and to the side of the transmission.

any suggestions? im almost tempted to remove the whole mount, knuckle assembly, and steering rack; so frustrating...

any suggestions?

[Mr_Diesel]

I hate to say it, but you would have a lot less trouble if you had used a floor jack, but since your into it this far you can try to lower the front subframe. The subframe is the bar that goes across the front of the engine bay. The front motor mount rests on this bar. On a MkIII there are 3 bolts on each side. There are two big ones (17mm?) visible from underneath, then there is one situated in the middle of the two obvious ones up inside the sub frame. Ensure your beam is VERY supportive or place a floor jack underneath the front subframe while you remove the bolts. Use the floor jack to lower the subframe down about 3 inches. Now that the subframe has been lowered, lower the entire engine assembly a few more inches. That should give you enough clearance. The reason for the front subframe removal is to allow the engine/trans assemble to move/pivot forward in the engine bay so it will clear the tight area on the right. It's a breeze... only takes about 5 mins to remove and about 10 mins to put back up. Good luck man.

[zukgod1]

I hate to say it, but you would have a lot less trouble if you had used a floor jack, but since your into it this far you can try to lower the front subframe. The subframe is the bar that goes across the front of the engine bay. The front motor mount rests on this bar. On a MkIII there are 3 bolts on each side. There are two big ones (17mm?) visible from underneath, then there is one situated in the middle of the two obvious ones up inside the sub frame. Ensure your beam is VERY supportive or place a floor jack underneath the front subframe while you remove the bolts. Use the floor jack to lower the subframe down about 3 inches. Now that the subframe has been lowered, lower the entire engine assembly a few more inches. That should give you enough clearance. The reason for the front subframe removal is to allow the engine/trans assemble to move/pivot forward in the engine bay so it will clear the tight area on the right. It's a breeze... only takes about 5 mins to remove and about 10 mins to put back up. Good luck man.


So Mr Diesel are you saying to remove the trans/ engine assy removing the front of the car is easy? I've seen allot of cars with the front ends completely removed so I've wondered if it was easier doing it that way VS trying to finagle the engine off the trans then getting it out of the hole, doesn't look like there is enough room between the crank pulley and frame to clear the trans.

[Mr_Diesel]

Just as a clarification, you don't have to remove any part of the front of the car to lower the subframe.

To Zuk, I have found it next to impossible to remove the engine/trans assembly through the top. The crank pulley and edge of the trans will hit the frame. It's possible (and easy) to remove the engine through the top if the trans has been disconnected already. You can even do it without removing the hood.

About front removal... If you don't have a lift and an transmission jack, I think front removal is the easiest way hands down. You don't even have to have the car on jack stands. Hardest part is getting the rusty bolts for the cat/downpipe removed. (cutting torch:twisted:) I can have the radiator support, bumper and subframe removed from a mark II or III in less than 10 minutes if with air tools.

[MrBurritoMan]

Just as a clarification, you don't have to remove any part of the front of the car to lower the subframe.

...
to put it simply i got the transmission out. it took the help of a crowbar and some very careful finesse. i ended up not lowering the subframe just because, i am stubborn (i didn't want to disassemble anything unnecessary), and when i did remove the bolts on the drivers side it only dropped by 0.5" which was not enough to make a difference.


WHAT.THE.F*(&^

i had a detailed story all written out, clicked preview and for some reason or another lost the whole thing. i decided that i will post some pictures, descriptions, and a question. im just not in a mood to re-type every detailed step.


i lowered the very heavy transmission to a cart and rolled it into the shop.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_BeforeDisassembly.jpg
Click for a bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/BeforeDisassembly.jpg)
after a few minutes i had it disassembled to the point where i could remove the troublesome bushing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_HomeMadePullerHook.jpg
Click for a bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/HomeMadePullerHook.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_HomeMadePuller2.jpg
Click for a bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/HomeMadePuller2.jpg)
i fashioned a special tool for the job out of a slide hammer, vice grip, and bearing puller hook.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_PartRemoved.jpg
Click for a bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/PartRemoved.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_PartCompairison.jpg
Click for a bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/PartCompairison.jpg)
after a couple taps it came out and that was that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/th_NewPartInstalled.jpg
Click for a bigger picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Jetta%20Problems/NewPartInstalled.jpg)
i cleaned up the hole, tapped in a fresh replacement and re-assembled the transmission.

i am now looking for fluid and a filter kit at a good price. the best that i could find is at a place called "World Impex".
G05-216-2A2
http://www.worldimpex.com./assets/partimages/037349.jpg
Click for bigger picture (http://www.worldimpex.com./item_detail.html?sku=238993)
Price: $15.80/L x7 = $110.60

01M-398-009
http://www.worldimpex.com./assets/partimages/037470.jpg
Click for bigger picture (http://www.worldimpex.com./item_detail.html?sku=207779)
Price: $22.90

Total: $133.50 (before taxes and shipping)

i need to stretch my tax return as far as possible. im wondering if anyone has a better price on the items above that would help out a lot. many thanks guys for your help so far!

[zukgod1]

Sounds like your heading the right direction :)

[Mr_Diesel]

Man... what a hassle! Good to hear you are progressing without too much trouble. :)

[MrBurritoMan]

ok, i received the fluid and filter kit today. i managed to get the transmission back into my engine compartment however its not seating onto the engine.

i tried to tighten down the bolts and the gap between the engine and transmission will shrink down to 3/8" at best. all of the bolts line up and none of the studs are in the way. it seems that it might be something to do with the torque converter; is this possible?

i tried to rotate the axle mounts to move whatever is in the way into position however that didn't make a difference. i even got under the engine and manually rotated the torque converter hoping that would help, it didn't matter either. when i rotated the transmission axle mounts or torque converter nothing else would move, is this good or bad?

im kind of stumped by this, any suggestions? :?

the cave man inside of me wants to slap the starter on there and hope for the best however past experience has taught me he gives very bad automotive advice.

[Mr_Diesel]

?????????????????? What the crap? I guess the bentley wasn't much help then? I dont' know jack crap about the automatics, but I'll try to help. You should take a picture of the gap and a picture of the torque converter and inside of the trans.

[zukgod1]

Dude your converter isnt lined up with the pump in the trans.
Pull the trans back out and grab both sides of the converter, rock and twist it back a forth as you apply mild pressure (trying to push it in).

You'll know when it goes in like it's suppose to.

[Mr_Diesel]

The pump???????? :confused:

[MrBurritoMan]

Dude your converter isnt lined up with the pump in the trans.
Pull the trans back out and grab both sides of the converter, rock and twist it back a forth as you apply mild pressure (trying to push it in).

You'll know when it goes in like it's suppose to.

how far back do you think i will have to move the transmission, it was kind of a b!7ch to get it in there.

The pump???????? :confused:

ok, zukgod has jogged my memory here is what is going on. on the torque converter there are two posts that should match up to the inside of the transmission. i guess they are misaligned or something, bah another day of wrestling with my auto, weeee.....:(.

im beginning to think that i should have just disassembled the whole front end of my car, it would have been easier :-D.

[MrBurritoMan]

ok, i just called my VW guy and asked him some questions and i feel very stupid right now.

i missed one very small and important step in removing the transmission.

*ahem*i uh....

i didn't uh....remove the torque converter...*sigh*

i didn't know it was supposed to come out. that would have made things so much easier.....i am going to go, wrench that thing out of there and have a good cry....:(


you were asking dr_diesel about the pump. here are some drawing pictures:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Parts%20Drawings/th_torqueconverter.jpg
Click for Bigger Picture (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/MrBurritroMan/1997%20VW%20Jetta%20GLS/Parts%20Drawings/torqueconverter.jpg)
the red marks two pins that need to match up with two holes in the ATF pump gear, if they don't match up then it is a no, go.

wow, this whole project could have been a lot easier...:cry:*cries*

[twig]

don't worry, it's how you learn. unfortunately, we may all have a little chuckle at your expense. ;)

fortunately for the rest of us, we won't ever make that mistake now.

[MrBurritoMan]

don't worry, it's how you learn. unfortunately, we may all have a little chuckle at your expense. ;)

fortunately for the rest of us, we won't ever make that mistake now.

im happy i could have been of assistance....:rolleyes:

im just surprised that i was able to get the transmission out and back into the engine compartment around that thing....:p