Various Turbo Questions

[GoodDayForADrive]

So, because I don't want to blow something up when I install my turbo, I have a bunch of stupid questions since I'm a first timer. So here they are, and I'll probably use this thread to ask more questions later too.

First off, it appears that I have an internal wastegate on my turbo, but I don't understand how to hook this up. There is only one nipple on the whole thing, so I guess I just need to know where that hooks into.

Second, there's a nipple directly on the side of the turbo, is this for the boost gauge? I remember in the boost gauge instructions it says to install it on the side of the turbo, was curious if this is the right spot.

Third, how exactly is the BOV hooked up? There's only one line I guess, so I need to know if that's a vacuum line, or what.

Fourth, do I need gaskets for everything? Exhaust mani gasket, between turbo and mani, etc etc.

I'm nearing finishing everything I need (I think) for this turbo setup. Basically need injectors, software, and IC piping, and I'm pretty much done. Thanks for any help, I realize that I'm new to this :D

[Mr_Diesel]

Okay... first off you WILL blow up your engine if you don't ask questions... I am willing to convey everything I know about this to you... Don't worry about being annoying... just ask all the questions you can think of.

1. A wastegate is a device (or valve, shall we say) that is used to cause the exhaust gasses to bypass the turbo... thus causing the turbo to produce less boost. The idea is that you calibrate the wastegate to open up at a certain point to prevent the turbo from boosting any higher than your desired boost PSI... This turbo has an internal wastegate:

http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/internal_gate3.jpg

You can see that little brass colored thinggy.. that's the wastegate diaphram.

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/all_gifs/Turbo%20page%20gifs/ExhTurbine.gif

On this turbo you can see the exposed wastegate flap.

On all turbos I have seen with internal wastegates, the wastegate is already hooked up to the only nipple on the turbo... So if the wastegate diaphram is not hooked up, then yes, that one single nipple is for the wastegate.

2. This question collides with your first question... you said there was one nipple. If there is one nipple, then it's for the wastegate. The boost gauge sensor or hose can be installed anywhere after the turbo compressor. If I were you, I would install the boost gauge reference on a vacuum line. There are several of these lines coming off the intake manifold. There are two on the left side of your manifold... one goes to the fuel pressure regulator and the other to something else... Tap a "T" into that other line and install your boost reference there. That way, when you are at idle or anything less than WOT, your boost gauge will show you vacuum. Most boost gauges will show something like.... -25 > 0 > +25 Which signifies 25 psi of vacuum, no boost or vacuum, then 25 psi of boost. It also gives you the most accurate reading of what you are actually boosting at. If you put your boost reference too far away from the throttle body and intake manifold, you are not getting a true to life reading of what you are actually boosting your engine at.... Put it on that line I told you about. It is a low volume vacuum line and will cause you to not have to tap into more important high volume vacuum lines.

3. Your bov obviously goes in line between the turbo and throttle body. That line you are talking about is a vacuum line. Another name for a bov is "shift valve". There is a diaphram in the bov that senses a vacuum. (IE: when you abruptly close the throttle when under boost, it creates an instant vacuum in your intake manifold... this is the vacuum source you want your bov connected to. That way, when you let off the throttle, that instant vacuum activates the bov, to release the boost.

Secondly, make sure the bov dumps back into the intake hose (before turbo compressor). When you are cruising down the street, there will be a vacuum in your manifold... this will cause slight amounts of air to be sucked in the bov in reverse. YOU MUST FILTER AND METER THIS AIR. Make sure it's in your intake hose after the maf and before the turbo, that way you are not running lean when cruising the streets. Also, very important to filter the air. Yeah the bov makes a "cool fast and the furious sound" but it's not worth blowing up your engine. You will still hear the BOV sound even if you vent it into the intake hose. Just put the dump near the maf and if you have a cone filter you will still hear the "bov fast and the furious sound".

4. Yes, you need gaskets for EVERYTHING. It will work just fine without gaskets, but it will leak.... Which not only makes it sound like a beater (like my car), but exhaust gasses will escape under the hood, which will eventually make its way into the cabin if you are idle at a stoplight... which is REALLY bad. Carbon monoxide among other toxins will easilly make you pass out if you are not careful.

Hope that helps, man... take some pictures of the stuff you have so far! What kind of turbo and intercooler did you decide to go with???

[GoodDayForADrive]

Ok, so what I meant was there is a nipple on the wastegate, and on the turbo, so I guess that means that I connect those together.

So about the boost gauge, unfortunately, mine doesn't show vacuum, but as far as where to connect it, you said the vacuum line on the left of the manifold, but I no longer have a stock manifold, so where does that line run to so that I know which one it is?

And for the BOV, can I connect this to the same vacuum line as the boost gauge? I'm assuming that's what the nipple on the BOV is for, and that the larger tube coming out is for redirecting to the air intake.

And thanks for the gasket info, I better look into some, I guess I only need like 3 or 4.

I'll definitely take some pics when I get home, but that'll be another 4-5 hours :)

[Mr_Diesel]

If you are sticking a different manifold on there it should still have some nipples for your vacuum lines. You could hook your BOV and boost gauge up to the same line, just use a larger line to connect the two of them, so that they both get all the boost and vacuum they need. Obviously the larger the hose the less restriction and the faster your BOV will react to your shift, also the more accurate and faster the boost gauge will be.

You could really clean up your engine bay by investing in a vacuum distribution block. Basically it screws directly into your intake manifold and has 5 or 10 or whatever nipples where you can hook vacuum lines to. Ideally every sensor or device that uses vacuum or a boost pressure reference should get it's own nipple on this distribution block... that's the most efficient way to connect everything. It also minimizes leaks because you don't have lines running everwhere with 3 or 4 T's in line.

I forgot where the "other" line runs, but it should be very apparent when you look at your engine. It's not important anyway because you'll be replacing your manifold.

[GoodDayForADrive]

Hmm... well I can't fit a vacuum line distribution thingy down there, because I don't know if you can see it in this pic, but I don't really have any spare room down there:

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg783x/sr/1.jpg

so I guess I'll hafta run some T's.

Here's a quick pic I snapped of the turbo, manifold, BOV, and that's an intake manifold spacer that's supposed to help with heat. I don't have a pic of my intercooler yet, but it's a side mount, I have a whole big plan for that too eventaully. Just got my oil pan in the mail today, and still waiting on my oil lines shipment. Currently looking into injectors and some C2 software, and then I'll be nearing completion I think :) Oh, and my ATP downpipe is in a box around here somewhere :lol:

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg783x/turbo.jpg

And where I'm mounting my gauges: (This is now covered in suede and installed in the car already, just haven't hooked the gauges up yet.)
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg783x/gaugesbeforesuede.jpg

[GoodDayForADrive]

Oh btw, the Turbo is off an Audi, but I don't really know any specs on it. Also, you can see the two nipples I was referring to earlier on the turbo and wastegate.

[Mr_Diesel]

What audi are they from???? take a picture of the side of the turbo and the little info tag.

[GoodDayForADrive]

What audi are they from???? take a picture of the side of the turbo and the little info tag.

Don't know, the guy just said it was off an audi. I don't see an info tag, just know it says Garrett AiResearch on the side.

[GoodDayForADrive]

So... got some more various parts in today, gaskets, various hardware for oil lines, the couplers I think I'll need for my IC piping, etc..

And now on to another stupid question:
I'm confused again about the BOV, as I noticed there is another nipple coming off of the BOV that I hadn't noticed before (in green). The piece in red screws into the BOV above the biggest hole, where the other red box is, and is also a nipple. So that leaves me with two coming out of the BOV, where I thought there was only 1(that just gets hooked up to vacuum). Any help on this?

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg783x/bovhelp.jpg

So as far as an update regarding the whole thing.. I essentially just need injectors, software, boost controller, turbo timer, and IC piping, and I'm about done. I think I have most of the gaskets, only one I don't have is the one from the downpipe to the turbo (anyone know where to get this?), and I'm not sure if there is one between the exhaust and the downpipe.

[muppet]

The nipple on the top of the BOV is to be hooked straight to the intake manifold so there is a vacuum when the throttle is closed. This nipple must be hooked up for the valve to function. The other nipple is to be hooked in somewhere that has constant pressure, like right on the intercooler piping. I just put a "T" on the line to the wastegate actuator. A lot of people don't bother hooking this up.

I never had a turbo timer with my setup, just leave a few minutes early so you can sit and let the car idle a little bit. I didn't run a boost controller until I stacked head gaskets, but my turbo ran 7psi with the spring it had in it, and I was happy with that for quite a while. I realized after I bought the dual stage controller that I didn't really need it unless I was going to run race gas for one stage and pump for the other, it really depends how your turbo spools I guess. I personally couldn't find a reason to be at 6000 rpm's unless I was running the most boost I could on pump gas.

For intercooler piping, I would check ebay. There are lots of people who sell sets of mandrel bends. It is good to have an idea of how you will route the piping before you buy it so you are sure you have enough. You will be hard pressed to find a premade kit to fit a sidemount with that intake manifold and exhaust manifold. I wish I wouldn't have wrecked my car, I want to feel the difference that the short runner actually makes. I had plans for the winter. I had already bought delphi #42 injectors, a spearco air/water intercooler, a hand tigged aluminum water reservoir, and the peloquin that also never made it to the car. I was going to do the 16v aba hybrid with some kind of standalone, it should have been well over 300whp by the time it was done maybe in the neighborhood of 400.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/7738/mvc019frh2.jpg

I still have my C2 software and #30 injectors if you still want them. The doctor I went to see released me to go back to work so I haven't been on vortex in the last couple days.

You are going to love having a turbo on the car, it is a complete transformation. I had been going to the amateur drags at the airport and I was actually doing pretty good. My car was dead even in the 1/8th with the new GTI (with dsg transmission), I didn't lose to very many imports :lol: I beat my friend in an h22 prelude with bolt ons by 3-4 car lengths in the 1/8th mile.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2035000-2035999/2035882_57_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2035000-2035999/2035882_53_full.jpg

This is my inspiration for my next car.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/2035000-2035999/2035882_60_full.jpg

My friend who was watching said he got me by 15 car lengths which is a big section of an 1/8th mile track. I had the window down a bit and was suprised to hear every tire spin in 2nd gear. If you have never been to a strip you need to go try it once you have your turbo on. Just don't start by racing built wrx's or evo's :lol: because you might be a little dissapointed.

[GoodDayForADrive]

Thanks for the input muppet :)

I'm actually going to probably go to a guy I know that will make any custom bends I want into some piping for the intercooler. I'll just go to his supplier and get some 2 inch pipe, and then bring it to him and tell him what I want. I also hafta figure out some brackets to hold things in like the power steering reservoir, and the intercooler. I'm planning on running the boost controller and the turbo timer anyways, because I like to do things complete, that's just how I am :)

About the BOV.. if I didn't hook up the little one that needs constant pressure, would it still function properly? I guess I should just do it right eh? :lol:

And yea, I'm kinda curious what my car is pushing hp wise right now.. I might go dyno it before and after the turbo, to see the difference. I think I'm at least over 100 hp right now, it feels like so much more than it was already. Can only imagine what the turbo will feel like :twisted:

[GoodDayForADrive]

So hooked up my boost and oil pressure gauges today finally.. sorta..

The boost gauge is fine, easy install, should work, although I don't know since it still reads zero ,but technically that's correct :lol:

And I HAD the oil pressure gauge working.. here's the deal.
I hooked it all up, and it worked, but it leaked. So I tightened a bunch of the stuff down there, as best I could considering its really hard to get to without having all the intake mani off, like I had off before. So anyhow, I did all that, and then when I went to pull back into my parking space out in the driveway, I noticed that the gauge no longer seemed to work.. Maybe I overtightened around the nylon tubing and crimped it? Not sure.. but I hope it doesn't leak too much anymore.. I'll be sure to go back through that and tighten it all up when I install the turbo.

On a side note, also installed my phenolic intake manifold gasket, so we'll see how that works out. Is supposed to drastically reduce temperature of the air from the intake.

[Mr_Diesel]

So hooked up my boost and oil pressure gauges today finally.. sorta..

The boost gauge is fine, easy install, should work, although I don't know since it still reads zero ,but technically that's correct :lol:

And I HAD the oil pressure gauge working.. here's the deal.
I hooked it all up, and it worked, but it leaked. So I tightened a bunch of the stuff down there, as best I could considering its really hard to get to without having all the intake mani off, like I had off before. So anyhow, I did all that, and then when I went to pull back into my parking space out in the driveway, I noticed that the gauge no longer seemed to work.. Maybe I overtightened around the nylon tubing and crimped it? Not sure.. but I hope it doesn't leak too much anymore.. I'll be sure to go back through that and tighten it all up when I install the turbo.

On a side note, also installed my phenolic intake manifold gasket, so we'll see how that works out. Is supposed to drastically reduce temperature of the air from the intake.

Yeah... those oil pressure gauges use compression fittings to make a perfect seal... if you do it too tight it will completely seal off the soft nylon hose. Checker auto and autozone sell those little tiny balls that go onto the hose... go buy a new one of those (they are less than 1 dollar). Make a fresh cut on the nylon hose.

That compression fitting shouldnt leak with MINIMAL tightening. I think there is some sort of spec to the tightening of a small compression fitting.... like 5ft lbs... something like that. If it's done correctly it won't leak when you put such a small amount of torque on it.

btw... today should be one of the last days my 94 jetta is NA!!!! I'm working on my intercooler plumbing today... as soon as I get a rising rate FMU, and a basic chip, I'll be boosting my 2.0L myself!!! I can't wait.

[GoodDayForADrive]

I think I fixed it, it was leaking behind the gauge too. It's now showing 60-70 psi, is that normal?

[Mr_Diesel]

I think I fixed it, it was leaking behind the gauge too. It's now showing 60-70 psi, is that normal?

Mine pegs at over 100psi on a cold start sometimes... perfectly normal.

[GoodDayForADrive]

Yea, goes down to like 40psi, or just under 40 at idle, then goes back up to 60-65 when I hit the gas. I also just noticed today that there is pretty much no rubber on the inside of my passenger side front tire... I should get that fixed...

[GoodDayForADrive]

ok, so I roughly pieced the turbo, mani, and downpipe together just to see what I was missing. This is when I noticed that the studs coming out of the exhaust side of the turbo, where the downpipe bolts up, are all different lengths, and in addition aren't threaded all the way down... I guess I need to remove these studs and implement some other method of bolting the downpipe on?

Other than that, I'm basically missing 2 gaskets, and some nuts and bolts. I also need to call the guy about my IC piping, not sure how thats gonna work since I'm not really sure what I want yet.

[GoodDayForADrive]

Update: All I need now is intercooler piping, and a couple bolts, so I'm probably installing it next weekend, we'll see.

[Mr_Diesel]

Bolts.... used galvanized bolts.... or any kind of bolt that wont rust!!! Trust me... get rid of the studs... RIGHT NOW and use bolts. You'll thank yourself later.