Engine Swappppp

[SteveXs2]

I've never done anything like this before, I'm not a very mechanical person, but I've developed quite a bit of an understanding of the type of thing since I got my car exactly one year ago (anniversary!).

So anyway, I popped up the hood today to top up my oil because my car has had an appetite for it lately when I saw some oil leaking out from my 3rd spark plug. Head gasket blown a bit?

I dunno. So anyway, the engine has well over 330,000km on it and it's never been a very strong engine so I'm considering swapping in another 8v (putting in a 16v would be too much work for me) assuming I can find one. My car's an '86 so it's got CIS... so I'd have to find another CIS engine to swap in, right? Or, could I use any other head/block from an A2 and still use CIS or are the engines different enough that I can't do that?

I'm wondering because I've got an '88 Golf with around 220,000km on it but the car itself can't be driven because of a bent frame. It's also got an automatic tranny and I'd like to swap trannies too (mine sucks so bad) but not to an auto.

So, I'm assuming if I were to do this, I'd have to find another engine exactly the same as mine to use, correct?

I'm really shady on the details, but I've got a number of friends who know a hell of a lot about this stuff who could help me (aka do it for me :P).

Any help is really appreciated.

Otherwise, I may just wait until the spring and find a newer A2 Jetta/GTI in better shape that I can buy, paint, swap in anything I need from my current Jetta and then try to sell the old one.

[GoodDayForADrive]

All I know is, if you don't have an auto tranny, you can't swap that one in it's place. That's about all I know on this topic, cause I suck.. and stuff

[SteveXs2]

I should probably just save myself a lot of stress and buy a newer Jetta in the spring.

I've also been thinking of getting a Rabbit or something as a "spare" so I can uninsure the Jetta and do stuff to it that would take me too long if it were my only car, ie; paint.

[Gotturbo]

Swap in a 2.0 ABA

[Mr_Diesel]

You can use any 4 cylinder VW engine, no matter what the details (injection type or tranny)

On a U flow 4 cylinder engine (as well as ABA 2.0L, and 16V's) the injectors mount in the head using "Injector Cups" CIS injector cups are smaller in diameter and longer because CIS injectors are considerably longer than electronic injectors.

If you wanted to use an originally digifant engine on a CIS platform, you would simply get your allen wrenches and unsrew the CIS injector cups out of the CIS head, and screw them into the digifant head in place of the digifant injector cups. This goes for any fuel injected 4 cylinder VW engine. You can easilly use any 1.6, 1.7, 1.8, 1.9 or 2.0 four cylinder engine as long as the injector cups can be unscrewed.

This is what I had to do on my 16V... I simply removed the CIS injector cups with an allen wrench and I bought a set of 4 digifant injector cups from the dealer (like 1 dollar/piece) and you can screw those into the place and use EFI (or vice versa in your situation).

Now, the automatic transmission flywheel is much different than the manual tranny flywheel. Get yourself an impact wrench and remove the auto flywheel, and simply put the manual flywheel, clutch disk and all the other goodies in place. The crank shaft has 5 bolts (i think?) that can easilly be removed with a 17mm socket and an impact wrench. (don't try to use a breaker bar. You WILL stripp the bolts off, then you are screwed. The bolts are very narrow, and will strip off. Use an impact wrench, it's much safer. Once those 5 bolts are off, the flywheel will come off, and you can install the manual flywheel in reverse pattern.

The engines are exactly the same (for manufacturing cost reasons) You just have to put the right attatchments on it, and you will be golden.

If you are staynig CIS, then a 16V swap would be just as easy as a 8V swap... You'd have to play with you fuel screws a bit, but the swap in would be just as easy. If you can find a 16V I would do that.

Of course, before you did any of this, I would run a compression check on both engines. The engine might seem tired, but it just might be because of poor maintenence or crappy tuning... Just make sure you check compression. If you are anywhere above 110psi the engine should be as strong as ever. Anything below that, and you've got ring problems/tired engine.

You can also do what sam said. The 2.0L ABA can be found for about $300 usd. Very common and very cheap. I don't think it would be very hard to make a CIS ABA, youmight run into some troubles with fitting the fuel lines but I know it has been done before. The aba makes a lot more power and torque than the 1.8L 8V... It's a very fun engine, and they are a dime a dozen.

[Gotturbo]

If I were you I would find a wrecked MK3 and take the tranny and engine... Cody's MK3 wasnt really that far behind me when we raced when I first got my car and his ABA is in a mk3 you put that engine in a mk2 and it would easily keep up with a 16V, The ABA is alot more reliable then the 16V too and its easy to turbo, if you blow the engine as cody mentioned the engines are a dime a dozen.

[SteveXs2]

Man, you guys kick ass.

I'm stoked now, I'll put aside a little savings until the spring with money to get a Bentley, some tools, and an engine. I was also looking in "The Bargain Hunter" (local classifieds) and found a golf for $400. Figure if I were to buy that thing while working on my Jetta I'd have something to drive and when the Jetta is done I can paint the golf and sell it again for $400.

ABA 2.0L or 16v would be ideal for me, but what about exhaust for the 16v, I'd need a new manifold too, right? Also... what about the 1.8L (?) from something like an Audi 5000CD? Would that kind of thing swap across too, assuming I grabbed the CIS from the Audi, too.

My friend's dad owns a tow/wreck yard and I'm not sure if he has much in the way of VWs, but I've been friends with his daughter for years now and when she's wanted me to photograph things I'll do it so I guess they sort of owe me a favour since I do the work for nothing.

P.S. He's a Porsche man, he drives a 60's 911 he restored and he's building his daughter a 944. I think he'll understand when I say I'm looking for a little more go.

BTW, my 8v surprised me today. I was stuck driving behind some POS going 50km/h on a 50km/h road that is super long and most people go 70/80km/h on it, so the last small stretch is a passing lane and I dropped it from 4th to 2nd, stepped on it, and passed them going 80km/h real quick. Then when I got to the highway I held the throttle open in 2nd til 5,200rpm and did that in the next couple gears and realized I hit 120km/h mighty fast and the car was still pulling like it's never pulled before.

[Mr_Diesel]

Man, you guys kick ass.

ABA 2.0L or 16v would be ideal for me, but what about exhaust for the 16v, I'd need a new manifold too, right? Also... what about the 1.8L (?) from something like an Audi 5000CD? Would that kind of thing swap across too, assuming I grabbed the CIS from the Audi, too.

Why thank you.

I'm not 100% sure on the audi question. If it's a 4 cyl, I am sure you could strip it down to a long block, and bolt on all the manifolds and accessories that are on the engine in your car now. Pretty sure everything would bolt up just fine... Seems like a lot of work, when you could easilly find a 16V or an ABA.

Things to consider if you get the ABA:

The ABA is taller than the 1.8L. You will need to source an ABA exhaust manifold with your aba engine, or you will have downpipe clearance problems.

The ABA is not your everyday mechanics job. You need to be willing to fabricate things to make this work, whereas the 16V and 1.8L is a direct fit. The ABA needs special fabrication, and an imagination to figure out how to make things fit and work correctly. For instance, you need to make a block off plate for the ABA to go over the crankcase vent on the front of the ABA block. I am sure that the ABA will require a lot of splicing of wires as well.

Pros to ABA:

1. Much better engine, especially if you get the OBD I engine. Forged internals and oil squirters make this a great candidate for an engine that can easilly hit the 300 or even 400,000 mile mark.

2. More power and lots more torque. The powerband in the ABA is amazing. Try revving the ABA to 3,000 rpm while in 1st gear and then mash the throttle. It's a VERY torquey engine. A longer stroke makes this engine sing at low rpm.

3. Cheaper aftermarket. 8V parts are a lot cheaper and a lot less desired. (easy to find and cheap to buy)

4. Very reliable. This is a tried and true technology. The technology in the engine dates back to the very first days of tiny little carb'ed rabbit engnies. Very very reliable.

5. Parts are easy to find and the engine is easy to work on.

Cons to the ABA:

1. Fabrication is required for swap.

2. CIS may pose a problem when trying to mount injectors due to the fact that the injectors are under the intake manifold.

3. Most will argue that it is "still an 8V".

4. Your car will likely be down for a long time while this swap occurs. You'll need a helping hand from somebody that knows their crap.

Things to consider if using a 16V:

The 16V is a higher performing engine. With higher performing parts, come more costly repairs, and an engine that wears out faster. The 16V exhast manifold will not work on an 8V head or vice versa. The exhaust ports are MUCH larger, and the mounting studes are not even arranged in the same fasion as an 8V manifold... You WILL need the 16V manifold.

Pros to a 16V:

1. More power out of the box. The 1.8L 16V makes more power than the 2.0L 8V.

2. More potential and larger aftermarket if you plan on making it "fast".

3. 100% of north american 16V's were CIS out of the factory, which means your motor will have everything it needs and you can just drop it right in and hook it up to your Jetta's CIS system.

4. The 1.8L 16V will rev way higher than any 2.0L engine ever would. With solid lifters, stiffer valve springs, and a rod bolt kit, this engine could safely rev to 10,000 rpm.

Cons to a 16V:

1. Very costly repairs. If you throw a timing belt, your head will be destroyed, and will required very costly rebuilds.

2. CIS has never been a specticle for reliability... Course CIS reliability is not the 16V's fault.

3. It's likely the 16V will get far less fuel efficiency than a 8V.

4. You will need a 16V transmission to go with it. The 8V transmissions have a (90mm?) main input shaft, and the 16V's have a (100mm?) input shaft. You can swap out your 16V clutch goodies for 8V parts, and use your 8V tranny, but you'd likely run into tranny trouble down the road.



If you wanted my vote, I would tell you to go with a 16V. You will enjoy the car much more, and you have the know-how to make this work without anybody elses help. I have both. I know the benefits and downfalls of each one. I use the 8V for a daily driver. I put all the miles on my 8V, and try to keep the miles on my 16V.

[SteveXs2]

Now it sounds like the 2.0L aba would be too much work for me. I have no access to tools needed to fabricate parts, nor have I ever done any metal work since I was in grade 8 shop class.

16v sounds like an "easy" enough swap if I can get/afford the parts needed, but the fuel economy downside gets me. That's one of the reasons I want a new motor, my fuel economy has really gone downhill, which is also attributed to by the way I drive but it used to be better. Also, the reliability and cost factor gets me in the nuts. I'm in college right now, and will be next year, and depending on what I decide to do I may be in college for 3-7 years, so I want a car that can get me from point A to point B until I graduate, get money coming in, and then get something much better.

Because I've never done anything like this, I think I should be on the lookout for another 8v that's been granny-driven or something. Then just clean it up real nice and swap that in place of my current 8v. I'd learn a lot from it and I'd have an engine that would likely last me longer than the one I've got in there.

On the other side, I'm going to keep my eyes out for a spare car to drive while I do this 8v to 8v swap so I can get to work and school without having to borrow my parents' rides. Maybe then I can take whatever I get and put a 16v into there and just insure it in the summer for fun driving. Or hell, just try and find a 16v GTI that I can work on in the spring/summer after the Jetta, get it looking and running nice and do the same thing with it.

Thanks for all the info. It helps my brain settle so much. If I weren't in college right now I'd probably have a MkIII right now I'd be driving, but unless I can find enough time away from school/work to go back to designing websites in my spare time (damn good $$$) I'll have my MkII for a while.