Ideal Muffler

[SteveXs2]

I went under my car today to take a peak at how the exhaust is doing since it was welded back up in the spring.

It's in pretty shabby shape right now, as the guys at the muffler shop guessed, "it'll be time to replace in 6 months time". So, I'm looking at replacing just a couple inches of pipe, the muffler, and the tailpipe.

What would you guys recommend for a muffler to buy? Everywhere I look I see fart cans and fart cans, I just want something normal, maybe a little on the "performance" side.

[jettadude]

Borla,flowmaster there nice. or get a turbo muffeler. like a thrush. they sound good on VW's. it made my vr sound like a supra! no lie it made the vr6 purr!

[GoodDayForADrive]

remus is sexy

[Mr_Diesel]

Borla,flowmaster there nice. or get a turbo muffeler. like a thrush. they sound good on VW's. it made my vr sound like a supra! no lie it made the vr6 purr!

4 cylinder vw... I'd get a flowmaster with a 2 inch inlet and a 2 inch outlet... that'll help prevent backpressure scavenging, and it'll sound good

[SteveXs2]

What do you guys think of Borla? My friend bought a Borla muffler after his neighbour (cop) suggested he put a muffler on his Ranger. It sounds pretty good, his straight-piped setup sounded like a tuned exhaust, but his borla makes the thing sound like a Rally Car and it's pretty sweet.

It also fits into my price range. Well, a flowmaster I looked at would be around the same price (40 series race muffler?) but it was a universal muffler recommended for Ford Broncos and other stuff so I figure it's pretty straight-through and after reading Mr. Diesel's post about losing low-end, I really don't want to lose the little low-end I have.

Also, tailpipes. I looked at Canadian Tire and their cheapest tip was called the "Boom Tube"...... it was just a straight through polished pipe so I don't know why it was mentioning stuff in regards to municipal laws on sound and "low rumble" and junk, cause I really don't want that and would rather just get a piece of $7 pipe from CT and stick that on the end.

[Mr_Diesel]

Okay, this is what I would do if I had to do it all over again...

I would get a 1 3/4 inch inlet/outlet flowmaster, and have that welded in place of where the resonator is. I would keep the stock pipe size from the cat back to the flowmaster, after the flowmaster I would continue the 1 3/4 inch pipe to go over the axle... as soon as I was over the axle, I would have the guy weld in 2 1/2 or 3 inch pipe (the bigger the better). Doing this will solve your backpressure problem, and give you that deep V8 sounding rumble. The bigger the pipe the deep the sound will be... I used 3 inch pipe, and it sounds like a badass V8 when it's idling, and sounds very good at high rpm and full throttle.... I, however just kept the stock resonator, which is almost a straight through design, and I lost lots of backpressure. If I were to spend some money on an exhaust I would do the flowmaster and big pipe... It would be perfect, the gains would be in the 1-2hp range, and losses in torque would be very very miniscule, mabey 1ft lbs across the band... Flowmaster is a great design, and they sound very good on any engine... The bigggggg pipe will help make it not sound ricey, but like a deep nice german engine.

Here is my setup, which is basically what I would do with the exception of the stock resonator, I paid less than 100 bucks for the pipe and the labor to install all this:

http://www.dubnetworks.net/images/exhaust/IMG_1298.jpg

http://www.dubnetworks.net/images/exhaust/IMG_1301.jpg

http://www.dubnetworks.net/images/exhaust/IMG_1300.jpg

http://www.dubnetworks.net/images/exhaust/IMG_1299.jpg

http://www.dubnetworks.net/images/exhaust/IMG_1302.jpg

[Vdubthis]

i have a pos exhaust on my "97 VR6, its a 2 1/2 or somthing like that i was thinking about taking off my center pancake muffler will that kill my performance? wut about a turbo muffler thats 4inch would that take away from my throttle response? i have a cold air take. :idea: plz response

[Mr_Diesel]

i have a pos exhaust on my "97 VR6, its a 2 1/2 or somthing like that i was thinking about taking off my center pancake muffler will that kill my performance? wut about a turbo muffler thats 4inch would that take away from my throttle response? i have a cold air take. :idea: plz response

cutting the mid muffler out will definatly yield some power... leave the stock vr6 muffer on the end, those are nice, man.... really sweet looking tip, imo... don't go bigger on the pipe until you start doing mods on the engine... Intake, cam and chip. After that upgrade to a 2.5inch all the way back and you'll be golden and you won't loose any torque.

[Vdubthis]

i already have cold air intake after x-mas i'm hoping to get a stage 3 clutch and a Q-chip which is good because i like my throttle response. would there be a huge difference? what if i just left my mid muffler on and just got the turbo muffler for the end or would it sound like a honda? asap

[Mr_Diesel]

i already have cold air intake after x-mas i'm hoping to get a stage 3 clutch and a Q-chip which is good because i like my throttle response. would there be a huge difference? what if i just left my mid muffler on and just got the turbo muffler for the end or would it sound like a honda? asap

If you just cut the mid out, it makes the exhaust a little bit louder and it's still deep... still sounds like a german car.... Wait to put in bigger pipe until you get cams, then you could probably increase pipe diameter by 1/4 inch without loosing too much torque.

[Vdubthis]

wut is the point of a Turbo muffler, does that do anything at all? or just make noise

[jettadude]

louder means more power. straight pipe=loudest=most power. turbo muffler decresed back pressure but not allot and gives a nice growl at cheap.

[Mr_Diesel]

louder means more power. straight pipe=loudest=most power. turbo muffler decresed back pressure but not allot and gives a nice growl at cheap.

Louder doesnt necessarilly mean more power... Louder = Less restriction. To make an exhaust quieter a restriction must be put in place. (ex: baffles, turns, twists, etc...) If you have a very little amount of restriction (like the stright pipe) then it will be the loudest. BUT.... if you huge pipe and a huge muffler too big for the engine you have, it not only will be loud, but you'll loose torque too.

[jettadude]

true but the general rule of thumb is loud=power.

[mk2machine]

it depends on the model of your vw. If you are going to replace one single piece of the exhaust, you might as well just do the whole thing and do it right. Otherwise its going to sound like a stock exhaust system with a borla muffler on it (not too awesome). It will make a loud crackly noise which isnt too appealing unless your a ricer. If you want the deep smooth but still aggressive rumble than i reccomend replacing the entire system (300-650 depending on model) and i reccomend either magnaflow or bosal exhaust.

[Mr_Diesel]

True on some 4 cylinder vw's, but I speak from experience on the 2.0L aba and the 12V VR6.

[fortytons]

I spent about 450.00 and got a steel catback with an inline resonator, and a stainless Magnaflow with twin square tips. It sounds awesome, and with the resonator, it won't rattle your teeth.
Just remember, dont go overboard on the diameter, cuz you are restricted by the smallest diameter in the system. If it is 1.75" at the cat, you'd be wasting $$ to go 2.5 w/o replacing the small pipe too.
Maybe if I get my homework done I'll get some pics up today. :D

[Mr_Diesel]

Only increasing pipe diameter and nothing else really doesnt yield any useful power.

[SteveXs2]

So... if loud = power, then how come I don't hear any of the Porsches, Camaros, Mustangs, or anything else that rip around town, yet I hear every civic with a fart can? Seriously, every night I hear some Civic going "bwwaaaaaaaap, bwwaaaaaaaap, bwaaaaaaaap" all just trying so desperately to meet the speed limit.

I like the exhaust the way it is on my BMW right now. The stock exhaust is a decent size, and whoever owned the car before me stuck a little tip on the end that's slightly bigger than the rest of the exhaust. When just driving around normally, the thing is pretty silent, but give it a bit of throttle and tip the needle past 2,500RPM and it starts to growl nice and deep and sounds great. The 2.7L i6 may be slow, but it sounds great.

[KimmySon12]

So... if loud = power, then how come I don't hear any of the Porsches, Camaros, Mustangs, or anything else that rip around town, yet I hear every civic with a fart can? Seriously, every night I hear some Civic going "bwwaaaaaaaap, bwwaaaaaaaap, bwaaaaaaaap" all just trying so desperately to meet the speed limit..


...I think I love you!

anyone who talks like that about ANY Civic is a *** to me!

[jettadude]

So... if loud = power, then how come I don't hear any of the Porsches, Camaros, Mustangs, or anything else that rip around town, yet I hear every civic with a fart can? Seriously, every night I hear some Civic going "bwwaaaaaaaap, bwwaaaaaaaap, bwaaaaaaaap" all just trying so desperately to meet the speed limit.

I like the exhaust the way it is on my BMW right now. The stock exhaust is a decent size, and whoever owned the car before me stuck a little tip on the end that's slightly bigger than the rest of the exhaust. When just driving around normally, the thing is pretty silent, but give it a bit of throttle and tip the needle past 2,500RPM and it starts to growl nice and deep and sounds great. The 2.7L i6 may be slow, but it sounds great.

well because they are allready pushing allot of power. what i mean is if you looking for added power with an exhuast system louder=more power. so and your comparing a 4.6Lford to a 1.6L honda, yea that sounds is your motor i can put a quite exhuast on my car and give it some gas and it will roar but ill lose power from the restriction. and when i do floor it my engine is louder then my exhuast, i don't understand why your trying to give me crap when your comparing oranges to *****s. 200+hp to 80hp and your wondering why they struggle? like i don't understand all this B/S with back pressure and power loss. if you loose soo much power and its soo smart to keep backpresure then why do top fuel cars run open headders? top drag cars run open headders, any kind of drag car no muffler. because when you want the most power your in the top end of the powerband and thats where you gain the power from no backpresure, i don't know about you guys but i keep my revs well above 4k when im getting on it, i drive city under 3K but im not racing so i don't care about the lost low end. this is a retarted battle, when your racing from idle to 3K then yea bitch about backpresure. maybe thats why i pull on mk4 vr6's with a the same mods as me but a more restrictive exhuast. yea ive pulled on a mk4 gti vr6 with intake and exhuast which is what i pretty much have. it was dead even till the end of 3rd but i started to pull and kept pulling. maybe it was my gutted cat and fart can but i wasn't the one pissed getting owned by a jetta with a system in my gti. its not about what everyone else says works its about what works for you. so if you want to try an exhuast system go for it. don't belive what everyone else says just do it and make your own opinoun. and dont' compare a V8 to a I4 not only is it stupid but its take more of my time to explane why it is stupid.

[Mr_Diesel]

So... if loud = power, then how come I don't hear any of the Porsches, Camaros, Mustangs, or anything else that rip around town, yet I hear every civic with a fart can? Seriously, every night I hear some Civic going "bwwaaaaaaaap, bwwaaaaaaaap, bwaaaaaaaap" all just trying so desperately to meet the speed limit.

I like the exhaust the way it is on my BMW right now. The stock exhaust is a decent size, and whoever owned the car before me stuck a little tip on the end that's slightly bigger than the rest of the exhaust. When just driving around normally, the thing is pretty silent, but give it a bit of throttle and tip the needle past 2,500RPM and it starts to growl nice and deep and sounds great. The 2.7L i6 may be slow, but it sounds great.

well because they are allready pushing allot of power. what i mean is if you looking for added power with an exhuast system louder=more power. so and your comparing a 4.6Lford to a 1.6L honda, yea that sounds is your motor i can put a quite exhuast on my car and give it some gas and it will roar but ill lose power from the restriction. and when i do floor it my engine is louder then my exhuast, i don't understand why your trying to give me crap when your comparing oranges to *****s. 200+hp to 80hp and your wondering why they struggle? like i don't understand all this B/S with back pressure and power loss. if you loose soo much power and its soo smart to keep backpresure then why do top fuel cars run open headders? top drag cars run open headders, any kind of drag car no muffler. because when you want the most power your in the top end of the powerband and thats where you gain the power from no backpresure, i don't know about you guys but i keep my revs well above 4k when im getting on it, i drive city under 3K but im not racing so i don't care about the lost low end. this is a retarted battle, when your racing from idle to 3K then yea *female dog* about backpresure. maybe thats why i pull on mk4 vr6's with a the same mods as me but a more restrictive exhuast. yea ive pulled on a mk4 gti vr6 with intake and exhuast which is what i pretty much have. it was dead even till the end of 3rd but i started to pull and kept pulling. maybe it was my gutted cat and fart can but i wasn't the one pissed getting owned by a jetta with a system in my gti. its not about what everyone else says works its about what works for you. so if you want to try an exhuast system go for it. don't belive what everyone else says just do it and make your own opinoun. and dont' compare a V8 to a I4 not only is it stupid but its take more of my time to explane why it is stupid.

Have you listened to anything I have told you? It's not backpressure that matters, is the pipe diameter. Look on your top fuel drag cars... None of them have pipes larger than a few inches on each cyl... And for your information, those engines make 8,500 horsepower, run at 16:1 compression at 40 psi of boost and use 15 gallons of fuel one quarter mile run. They have the displacement and performance to justify the type of exhaust they use. You are not comparing *****s to *****s. Louder does not mean more power.... The miniscule gains you get from an excessively loud exhaust does not outweigh the consequences of having headaches on the highway or annoying everyone in your neighborhood.

It is DEFINATLY possible to make rediculous amounts of power (even on small lower displacement engines) and still have a quieter exhaust. Hundreds of variables each having a different effect determine the power an exhaust system will deliver. "Louder=More Power" is a generalization that is not necessarilly true especially on lower displacement engines.

And to comment about those high performance cars that are not loud, that is a pile of crap. Any american v8 is loud. Very loud. Especially the high performance cars like the corvettes and crap. And when you spend 100,000 dollars on a porsche the last thing you want to hear is exhaust drone. You can't compare a porsche to a civic... again... *****s to *****s, guys. :evil:

[SteveXs2]

The thing about hearing v8s compared to hearing civics was more of a hint that ricers drive like idiots, not really any kind of factual thing.

I just thought the MORE NOISE MAKE MORE POWER thing was ridiculous. Wasn't it Mk2vr6jetta who posted about his new, lower restriction exhaust that was quieter than his old one?

BTW, I saw the absolute worst thing today... a massive ugly fart can on an E42 BMW 328i. I just don't understand how this person could put a $40 fart can on the back of a beautiful, powerful car. Then again, I don't understand how ANYONE can want a fart can on the back of the car, but I guess that's just me.... and anyone else who knows anything about what a good look and sound in a car is. Anyone who sticks a fart can on the back of their car is a total tool who doesn't deserve to even own a ****ing driver's license, much less own a car. P.S. Jettadude I don't give a **** about your street racing, you took a Jetta, riced it out, and are now driving a ****ing wannabe fast and the furious mobile. Now, go find some fake titted Asian woman to post half naked in front of your car while you tweak you "system". In the meantime, I'll be dreaming of the car I'm going to have when I'm done college...mmmmmmmmm......

[GoodDayForADrive]

settle down kids...

I'd add my input, but I'm pretty much with Diesel on this one.

[jettadude]

ok i get that but restrictive means quite its just the law of sound. there is no way to have a free flowing quiet exhuast. just doesn't happen, maybe there is someway of balenceing the harmonics but it would be insane and prolly restrictive. if you have smaller pipe its still loud just a higher pitch and lots of poping, if you have bigger pipe its lower and less popping. its all about pitch, the human ear cannot pick up allot of frequences. so in the end its harmonics and balences. i have not found or heard of an exhuast that flowed freely and was quiet like stock. a few inches for each cylnder is allot of exhuast flow. and yes they make thousands of HP and use more fuel then our tanks can carry i was just making a point that they have no exhuast restrictions. they don't even use normal fuel, if you remember 15years back formula 1 cars were 4cyl 1,000HP cars, they used a fuel that costs $10,000 a gallon. but has since made restrictions and have no use normal fuel kinda. i dunno you can find more info on that if you want but you can't make more power without a louder exhuast you just can't! if you add headders to a stock exhuast it will be louder and you would only see a third of the power gains of what you would see if you have full exhuast. back to pipe size what do you say? go bigger? go bigger loss of back pressure, go smaller more backpressure, everything they teach you about motors are it is a giant air pump. so if backpressure is good then its backwars of how a pump works, why would you want a restriction on the pump? it puts more strain on the motor to have to force out the air? you want the most free flowing air that you can get, to get the most efficency out of an airpump ex. being the motor. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine3.htm

also on howstuffworks.com they talk abotu mufflers. all they do is cancle out sound waves and to change the pitch out of our hearing range. if you can make a muffler that flows well but also does the same yes power without sound will work but most muflfers on the market do not, i do not know of any that can stay quit but flow as much as a fart can.

[jettadude]

yes you can have a stock 1.6L civing with a stock exhaust and a big turbo but turbo's require moving exhaust and if it is quit and restrictive the turbo cannot spool as much cann't run as much boost cann't creat as much power. it is all relative and there are many factors but a quick power upgrade yes is a loud fart can and for the price and funchionality you can't beat it. yes ricers drive like idiots, however we all do, i like to get on the gas going around corners and breaking them loose to make some noise im just as bad. but with those 1.6L honda's with the fart cans you need to flog them to go anywhere. yes exhuast drone does suck, gives me a headache im prolly switching to a turbo muffler less sound, less power but my city is passing a noise ordanace and they have dbl* meters. i hate my town.

[GoodDayForADrive]

If you get up into the more expensive exhausts like Supersprint, Remus, and Jetex, you'll find that they flow better than a "fart can" and are much much quieter.

[jettadude]

well as i said the money it takes to create a free flowing exhuast that is quite is insane because its all harmonics and a fart can is like haveing a straight pipe it flows the best but sounds like crap.