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Mr_Diesel
08-22-2005, 01:50 AM
So I went out to a local race track in Utah... I really like the Pro 4's class. They are all "american" cars because it's an "american" class. So all the cars are named like... Taurus, Stratus, Cavalier, etc... Well... durring time trials, there was this one car... The announcer gave us a bit of information about the vehicle. It was a "Ford Taurus"... He then continued to describe, the car, and he said it was "powered by a volkswagen engine"... I about screamed!!!! I kept my eye on him the entire night... He did very well, and he actually won the most points in the class that night, and took home a 500 dollar purse!!!

I went down in the pits afterwards to check out this car. The guy owns and operates Utah Imports... It's a euro tuning shop in Utah. I asked him if he would be willing to pop the hood and reveal some information about the car... Before he poped the hood he said "it's got a passat engine in it"... So I figured it was the 16V... NOPE... It was an 8V!!!

Passat 9A 2.0L 16V BOTTOM END with a stock crank and stock rods. He had the STOCK rods polished and balanced for about 150 bucks. He got some kinda pistons (forget the name), but he was running 12:1 compression. So the entire bottom end was stock with the exception of the polished rods and high comp pistons. He found some rod bolts that work great on the 2.0L 16V rods... He said Ford 302 ARP Rod Bolts are the exact same bolt, except the head of the bolt needs to be slightly machined to fit on the rod. These bolts are VERY VERY tough.

He then went ahead and told me about the top end. He bought a Eurospec 8V cylinder head... Apparently Eurospec went out and found a really high flow head from South Africa or something that flows almost as good as the 16V stuff... He stuck that on there... Stock from Eurospec.

He deleted the entire pulley system. He was using an electric water pump. He was using a deep cycle batter that had to be charged after every race due to the water pump and coil drainage. Not using these two items saves like 2hp he said... Not to mention the weight.

I didnt ask how, but he is running a total vacuum inside the crankcase, which helped with about 5 or 6hp.

He was using carbs... 4 motorcycle carbs I belive... (You cant use fuel injection in races because high pressure fuel or any high pressure liquid is a no no in these races).

He redlines the engine at 8,900 rpm.

Not sure what he had done to the tranny, but he did something to the innards that made it only a 2 speed... I think because of weight reductions, and less hp loss in the tranny.

He showed me a stack of dyno sheets that he was using when he was tuning the engine... I probably talked to the guy for a good hour... It was REALLY really neat. A great guy to talk to. He says he chose the 8V head over the 16V head because the extra flow and hp wasnt worth the added weight.

Ohhh he was also using 110 octane race fuel for the 12:1 comp... He said, all in all it was one of the cheaper engines he had built... Really I think it wouldnt cost much more than 1,000 bucks to build an engine like he did. The last engine he used made it through 3 race seasons of beating the piss out of the engine at 12:1 comp at 8,900rpm, the engine held up just fine.

Just telling you all about my cool experience with an awesome VW tuner... 208whp is possible with the 8V if only a few things are done... Not too expensive either! Not very practical considering it would probably last less than 10,000 miles under normal driving conditions, but still... 8V shiz is sooooo cheap it would be worth it to rebuild it every year!


Disclaimer: All of this information is just what I understood what he told me... If the owner of this car, or somebody that knows about this car more than I do, please feel free to correct my inaccuracies.

GoodDayForADrive
08-22-2005, 11:58 AM
Wouldn't a 16V be more reasonable for creating a powerful 4 cylinder street car though? Because weight doesn't matter as much, wouldn't the 16V be better?

GoodDayForADrive
08-22-2005, 10:57 PM
I also don't see how you could build that for under a grand, just the head alone is worth that...

Mr_Diesel
08-22-2005, 11:16 PM
I also don't see how you could build that for under a grand, just the head alone is worth that...

Well, the bottom end is stock, the head is about 750 bucks, and the pistons and the carbs are the only other thing that you really have to buy

GoodDayForADrive
08-23-2005, 05:48 AM
I also don't see how you could build that for under a grand, just the head alone is worth that...

Well, the bottom end is stock, the head is about 750 bucks, and the pistons and the carbs are the only other thing that you really have to buy

oh.. where would you get that head from?

Mr_Diesel
08-23-2005, 09:17 AM
I also don't see how you could build that for under a grand, just the head alone is worth that...

Well, the bottom end is stock, the head is about 750 bucks, and the pistons and the carbs are the only other thing that you really have to buy

oh.. where would you get that head from?

Eurospec... They have crossflow eurospec heads too... I'm thinking of tuning out my 2.0L and keep it NA instead of going with a turbo... NA engines are so much more fun and cheap to mod

GoodDayForADrive
08-23-2005, 09:36 AM
I also don't see how you could build that for under a grand, just the head alone is worth that...

Well, the bottom end is stock, the head is about 750 bucks, and the pistons and the carbs are the only other thing that you really have to buy

oh.. where would you get that head from?

Eurospec... They have crossflow eurospec heads too... I'm thinking of tuning out my 2.0L and keep it NA instead of going with a turbo... NA engines are so much more fun and cheap to mod

I checked Eurospec's website and could only find 5 valves, although their "crossflow" head seems to be a match to my head... is that the one I would be looking for? Doesn't say how many valves.

GoodDayForADrive
08-23-2005, 09:37 AM
Oh, one more thing, if I kept my 8v bottom end, would that constrict me a whole lot, as compared to the 16v?

MKIIVR6
08-23-2005, 03:12 PM
That's interesting, I remember you telling me about that car the other night Cody. A friend of mine who has since passed away owned a Taurus SHO with the Yamaha motor in it, stock from the factory. The older vintage. That car moved for sure. It's cool that the guy at RMR used a VW setup.

Mr_Diesel
08-24-2005, 03:58 AM
My bad... I doubled checked and they only have the 8V "U"? flow head and the 20 valve head from eurospec... All the "standard" heads have the option for them to build you a custom head from any type of valve or cam... Sorry bout that man... No x flow's for now...

Oh, one more thing, if I kept my 8v bottom end, would that constrict me a whole lot, as compared to the 16v?

Bottom ends are the exact same thing... The restriction is in the intake/head/exhaust.

That's interesting, I remember you telling me about that car the other night Cody. A friend of mine who has since passed away owned a Taurus SHO with the Yamaha motor in it, stock from the factory. The older vintage. That car moved for sure. It's cool that the guy at RMR used a VW setup.

Totally... Like I say though... It was a custom car, that was simply shaped like a taurus... It really wasnt anything like a taurus... But that yamaha engine is amazing... I saw 2 of those at the Auto X'ing at the E center.... And boy are they something else.



ANYWAY, Sorry for the confusion but the 8V eurospec head is 3,300 dollars... This is a price quoted for lighter BIG valves, HIGH performance springs and lifters, and a custom cam, which is easilly good for 9,000rpm... I'll be you can get atleast 170whp from a NA 2.0L 8V engine without this head... Which is still freaking awesome... I have a fully renewed faith in 8V's!

GoodDayForADrive
08-24-2005, 12:36 PM
without the head, what can I do?

Mr_Diesel
08-25-2005, 01:35 AM
without the head, what can I do?

High compression pistons.... I would try something like 11.0:1 for a daily driver... you'd have to use atleast 89 octane, but it would probaly give you 15 or 20hp.

High performance lifters and valve springs, then a chip to increase your redline to 7,100ish... Then high performance rod cap bolts if you plan on going above 7,100... look into the Ford 302 arp bolts I talked about, then you can redline at 7,500-8,000

Port and Polish the head... Like I said in sausages other thread, you can totally F up your airflow if you port the head the wrong way... Only port the head with a company or individual that you are positive that they know what they are doing. (turbo system shops, credible tuners and machine shops, etc).

The *RIGHT* intake or exhaust... No cheap redneck setups...... Yes, those 500 dollar exhaust systems are designed specifically for the correct and optimal flow for the particular engine.

More expensive things you can try is boring out the engine to a 2.1L, and the obvious turbo and supers you can add on.

You can seriously spend 50 grand on an engine and still have lots left over to do... But remember, NA performance is expensive, but there are some things you can do to get more hp if turbo is not your thing...

First thing I would do if I didnt have a lot of money would be a K&N drop in filter (keep airflow stock), then a chip to give me a few more hp and increase redline to 6,800 (on the aba 2.0L).

GoodDayForADrive
08-25-2005, 12:03 PM
I'm considering selling my injen intake, and cheese boxing my stock one with a k&n instead, and buying a GIAC chip with the money I made from the intake. Also, I'm very picky about exhaust sounds, but I think I like remus, what do you think about their build quality, and do you think that would be a good purchase for an exhaust? Also, how expensive are the new pistons you are talking about. For the most part, I don't want to mess with the bottom end. I know a guy on vortex though that will port and polish my head for a good price, and I've seen his work, and it looks professional.

GoodDayForADrive
11-04-2005, 01:52 PM
bump, for me wishing I had this kind of power from my engine... and cause it's an interesting topic to talk about.

Mr_Diesel
11-04-2005, 08:20 PM
bump, for me wishing I had this kind of power from my engine... and cause it's an interesting topic to talk about.


Yeah, the thing is 8V crap is so cheap... so it just all makes sense. I think 208hp in a little car like a rabbit or a jetta would SCREAM!! I don't think I have ever seen anybody put carbs or tb's on a street 8v... hmmm.

GoodDayForADrive
11-04-2005, 10:48 PM
bump, for me wishing I had this kind of power from my engine... and cause it's an interesting topic to talk about.


Yeah, the thing is 8V crap is so cheap... so it just all makes sense. I think 208hp in a little car like a rabbit or a jetta would SCREAM!! I don't think I have ever seen anybody put carbs or tb's on a street 8v... hmmm.

Is that legal putting those on? Cause I'd do it, lol.
Check these out: (I'm tseuG on there)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2248339

burn_your_money
11-04-2005, 11:38 PM
http://img112.exs.cx/img112/900/golf116vweber4.jpg

I'm confuseds Cody. Lots of rabbits came with carbs and they are 8vs. Or am I missing something?

Mr_Diesel
11-05-2005, 10:50 AM
Individual carbs.... I carb for each cylinder port. Or throttle bodies for each port, with fuel injection.

Like the picture of that green rabbit above, except that is a 16V... You would have to make a custom intake manifold, since it's a u flow head, but yeah... you get the idea.